Angie (00:00)
Welcome back to Tails of Truth, where we tell the truth about veterinary medicine. I'm Dr. Angie, and this is my co-host and veterinary nurse, Extraordinaire Jojo. And today we're talking about things that you do that your veterinarian and your veterinary staff hate. Hate, hate, hate.
JoJo (00:19)
As soon as you said hate, I'm like, shame, shame.
Angie (00:22)
Ha ha ha.
JoJo (00:24)
I don't w we're not here to shame. We're here to educate. Okay. Well, episode that goes out
Angie (00:27)
But are we? Maybe I am. I'm sorry. I feel certain
JoJo (00:33)
next week, I'm so mean girl. and you were so calm and nice. And so sometimes the mean girl has to come out.
Angie (00:39)
Okay, so this is my mean girl. Yeah. I know so
JoJo (00:41)
I don't know. I I have no idea what you're gonna say. I have ideas
of what makes us mad. Okay,
Angie (00:48)
Yeah.
JoJo (00:49)
so yeah, start with your the one that's like just chomping at the bit to come out
Angie (00:53)
Can you hear my cat sneezing in the background? No. Okay. I want to be like, that's what it sounds when a cat sneezes. okay, I digress. Okay.
JoJo (01:02)
What's that?
What what was that big TikTok trend for a minute? we're here to shame not bla what was it?
Angie (01:08)
yes, I can't remember, but yes, I know that trend. And no, I don't want to shame anybody.
JoJo (01:14)
We listen and we don't judge. something like that. Okay, let's hear it.
Angie (01:17)
Yeah, I think
I think I just feel personally affected more this week. So it is Friday. We always record this on Friday. And
JoJo (01:25)
Mm-hmm.
Angie (01:25)
I I currently sit in kind of a burned out moment. So this is burned out, Doctor Angie.
JoJo (01:32)
This is true because
I've gotten a lot of one sentence texts with no responses after. A lot of
Angie (01:37)
Yeah.
JoJo (01:39)
firing off of like just one sentence. I'm like, ooh, it's a week.
Angie (01:42)
I know. Well I'll
send it in between patients and then I'll walk into the next thing she's like, what's going on?
JoJo (01:47)
Yeah. And then like I'll send three text
later. Nothing. Just a new topic. A new topic. And I'm like, okay, she's somewhere this week. Something's happening. So let's hear it.
Angie (01:56)
Yeah. Something's happening.
Yeah. Yeah. So there are things that people do that make either my day harder, either logistically or emotionally. And number one, and we haven't talked about this ahead of time. Like we just are hitting record. Yes, because
JoJo (02:15)
But they're all surprises for me. Okay.
Angie (02:18)
in 30 minutes we have a guest on. So we're like, well, let's just hit record and talk about it. When people are
Unkind. So when clients call and they're unkind to the front desk.
JoJo (02:30)
Don't do that.
Angie (02:33)
okay, cause so here's a couple.
JoJo (02:34)
Wait, 'cause you can feel
shame for that if you do that. Yeah,
Angie (02:37)
Please do feel shame
JoJo (02:38)
don't do that.
Angie (02:39)
and change your behavior immediately.
JoJo (02:41)
Yes.
Angie (02:42)
so here's what happens in a veterinary clinic Carrie's one of our front desk staff. And Carrie takes her job very seriously, and she really wants to get people the service that they deserve.
And so what happens is that this kind of energy gets thrown at Carrie. And Carrie really wants to resolve it. I mean, that is her job, right? And so Carrie will come to the back or write a note to me saying, This person's mad or, this hasn't happened, or, they thought you were gonna call them yesterday, and they're rude about it. And she'll be like, they're so mad.
And what happens is so maybe I'm drowning that day, maybe I don't have the blood work back. maybe there's like 10 really critical things in front of that. And I'm getting to it. Like you should see my board at any given time. And what happens is then they call back in the afternoon and maybe I still haven't gotten to it. Then it becomes a relationship problem between Carrie and Dr. Angie because
JoJo (03:46)
I understand as
having been that or being that interim person,
Angie (03:50)
Yes. Yes.
JoJo (03:52)
that intermediary.
Angie (03:54)
Yeah. And I have to say, when people call and are rude, it doesn't make me think I need to get to them sooner. It doesn't make me get to them later. I can't say that I'll go as far as to be like, you go to the bottom now. But it doesn't.
JoJo (04:10)
Okay.
Angie (04:12)
make me feel like I want to call them. Now, when people call and say, hey, I'm just anxious. Hey, I know y'all are really busy. Hey, you know, whatever. Like, that's actually an easier call to make. And if I know someone's anxious and kind, like I tend to get to them sooner because I know that I'm not going to have to spend half of my conversation with them de-escalating their anger towards me. We can just get right to it like, my God, I'm so sorry you're anxious. Let's
Let's figure this out. And so I and I don't like it when people are mean to the people that are trying to help them. And I'll tell you at least once a week, when people are mean, there are real tears at Boulder's Natural Animal. Real
tears. We cut we go to the back and cry when you are mean to us. The doctors cry, the nurses cry. Yeah.
JoJo (05:02)
Guaranteed. It it has you win. You've you had an impact. It
it happens. I've seen it happen more, like people feel righteous or justified in being demeaning or bullying with either the front office staff or your veterinary technicians. And I've I've been there, and then you walk into the room, you get a whole different human being.
And so there's this hierarchy of madness.
Angie (05:28)
Yes. Yes.
JoJo (05:30)
And when you break down the front office staff and your nursing staff, your doctors are now suffering.
Angie (05:38)
well, and here's the deal. We know because they tell us and
JoJo (05:41)
We do tell
Angie (05:42)
we don't like it. Now we're not gonna be mean to you, but we've taken note. Like, noted, you were nice to me, but you weren't nice to Sam. And, you know, like I love Sam. And so Sam is so helpful and she has so much heart. And so part of me is like, I yeah, we know when you do that. Don't do that. Don't do it.
JoJo (06:02)
Mm-hmm. and I've worked
for many practices where the veterinarian or the office manager fires clients over it.
Angie (06:09)
Yes.
JoJo (06:11)
And I don't think that's what people really want.
Angie (06:14)
And here's the other thing when you're
JoJo (06:15)
Mm-hmm.
Angie (06:16)
mean to Sam or Carrie or whoever, just so you know, they are the ones that will come to the back and be like, we need to fit these people in. Like we're the people taking care of your animal and
JoJo (06:27)
Yeah.
Angie (06:28)
and the front desk. Like they are gatekeeping. And so they are the ones that are gonna really pull for you. So if you have a good relationship with them, they're gonna do the
best they can. Like they're gonna go to bat for you. And so I when people are rude, I don't get it. I had one woman that was actually just rude to me. I was running, I had a terrible I mean just was having a terrible morning and everything was complicated and I ran late. And I I mean I was late. I was 20 minutes late to her appointment. And I hate that for her. And so I walked in and I'm like I'm so sorry. Thank you so much for waiting for me. It's been a Monday morning.
And she just basically read me the riot act of like how it was stressful for her dog and she's like, I will eventually forgive you. And I just thought, I'm taking care of your dog. Like, don't you want to like I can't imagine on a side note here, I know I didn't finish that sentence, but I can't imagine if my child's pediatrician was late. I can't imagine meeting them with anything but.
niceness and compassion and like what?
JoJo (07:39)
No, because
I thought the same thing. I thought, okay, human people in human medicine, is this the same kind of treatment you get? if you're working in human medicine, because I always feel like if my doctor's behind, I wonder what kind of day she's having. She doesn't want to be behind. Guarantee you. I don't know.
Angie (07:55)
Right. No. No, it
it's a terrible feeling. It's terri I mean, it's the most helpless feeling. And then it cascades. And sometimes, you know, you go to the next person and and they require the whole thirty minutes. So you're like, Okay, I'm not catching up here or, in some cases are complicated and some dogs need more time.
JoJo (08:13)
Yeah. when it's your pet you w
that needs that full thirty minutes, you want that.
Angie (08:19)
You want that yes, yes. So anyways
JoJo (08:20)
Yeah. I'm sorry that happens.
Yes, but be kind. Simple, simple, simple in my opinion. I don't understand it
Angie (08:27)
Be kind.
JoJo (08:28)
because I just don't go I don't move through the world treating people poorly. Even on my my worst days.
Angie (08:34)
sure try not to. I really try not to.
JoJo (08:35)
Not to say that, but
then I was snarky in our last episode. So maybe that's not fully
Angie (08:40)
Aww.
JoJo (08:41)
true. no, I do bite back. That's
true.
Angie (08:44)
Yes.
Yes. Yeah. It just and I think when she said that to me, I just looked at her and I was just like, I really am doing the best I can. Like
JoJo (08:52)
Mm-hmm.
Angie (08:52)
it's just like I I'm so sorry. I don't know. Like I'm we're all just
we're all just trying to make it together. And so yeah, so be be kind. Yeah, be kind. So that's
JoJo (09:00)
Be kind. Okay. What's
Angie (09:03)
that's the first thing we hate.
JoJo (09:05)
That's valid.
What's number two?
Angie (09:08)
Let's see what's the next thing we hate. this. I'm gonna try not to say this snarky. When you send, this happens to me sometimes. When you send a representative, like let's say you're the primary caretaker of your dog. Let's say you send a representative, like your husband, like your whoever, that doesn't know anything about the pet. All we do.
Together with your husband or whoever is struggle. And sometimes that's all that's happening because I'm asking questions, they don't really know the answer. I'm trying to put together a treatment plan based off of limited information. And this has happened to me a few times. And then, like at the end of the appointment, you will call and the appointment is over. And then I get new information. And I'm just like,
JoJo (09:57)
Or later in the day that information comes in. And so now
Angie (09:57)
Tip or later in the day.
JoJo (10:00)
it's like you get a second appointment 'cause now you gotta go through the new information.
Angie (10:05)
Right. And then you're like, I wish I had that before. Now I get it. Like sometimes you literally can't. Like, we have like we only have a 10 30 available today. So I understand. Here's my ask if I can, if I can. will you write down the information? Just write it down. And then just let them read off of it. I'll read off of it. Or send a voice memo. I'll listen to that.
Or call at the beginning of the appointment. And maybe you can't call because the reason why you're not there is because you have something going on. But if possible, either write notes, like some way, those are the most successful appointments I have with people's spouses. Is that when they're like, okay, I have the list from my wife. And then we're like, okay, we got this. We can.
JoJo (10:49)
thousand percent
or if you are not the primary caretaker but you live in the same home with this animal can you just educate yourself a little bit carry some of that emotional mental load i'm I'm not gonna
Angie (10:59)
Well can you
JoJo (11:01)
even genderize it just I know you
Angie (11:04)
I already did for us.
JoJo (11:05)
did but I'm just gonna I'm gonna say if you live in the house with that pet take notice a little bit
Angie (11:14)
I know we we love those partners that do. We know who you are and we love you. We love
you so much. Yes. So okay. Here's it's a big ask, but
JoJo (11:24)
big ask though. That's a big ask. Yeah.
Angie (11:28)
is it? so the next thing that I am really struggling with right now is that.
I I tend to call my clients a lot and I don't mind talking on the phone. So usually like I'll email out lab reports and just say, Okay, call me. Because I find delivering some labs over the phone is it's difficult unless it's really simple because they're like, I'm talking about numbers that they don't know. So I'll send them the lab work, I'll write it out, and then I'll say, Okay, call me. And then usually it makes the conversation easier and more clear. But sometimes I'll get messages from people that'll say, Hey,
can we talk about this? I I'm not sure what to do about these vaccines. And can we talk about these three treatment options? And then what are you thinking for diet? And I call them and it takes 20 minutes of my time. And just to be clear, that is 20 minutes that I'm staying late, that I'm not with my kids, so if you have that much to talk to me about.
Just make an appointment, please. You don't even have to bring your dog. You don't have to bring your dog or cat. Like if you just need to chat for that long, that's fine. And sometimes the thing is, I'm old school in that I love talking to my clients. I really do. And some things just deserve a phone call. like blood work. I'm always gonna entertain that. But when it's just something that's separate out in the ether, then I I need you to make an appointment.
And I wanna make everyone so happy, but like I need you to make an appointment. 'Cause some people
JoJo (12:53)
Uh-huh.
Angie (12:53)
will just keep going on and on on the phone and I'm like, I actually don't
JoJo (12:56)
It's so
hard. It happens to me too. It's like, wow. I just spent 30
Angie (12:59)
Yeah. Like I get
JoJo (13:03)
minutes and couldn't find an out.
Angie (13:05)
I know. I get thirty minutes twice a day
JoJo (13:07)
Because I care. I care. Yeah.
Angie (13:10)
that I'm not seeing appointments that I have for my phone. But I have five labs to report, several ultrasounds, several call like you know what I mean. You can't get it done. You can't get it done. So
JoJo (13:18)
Yeah. No. Well,
and ideally you have a lead tech who's doing that for you unless it's something really complicated.
Angie (13:29)
Yeah. Now in an ideal world, yeah.
JoJo (13:30)
I mean in an ideal world, in my opinion. The clinics I've
worked at that run the best, the techs are doing a lot of that. They have carved out time. Somebody's on
Angie (13:40)
Yeah.
JoJo (13:40)
somebody's on it.
Angie (13:41)
Yeah, it's tough. What about you? What are things that that are you you're like, I refuse to participate?
JoJo (13:43)
Yeah. Mm-mm. I was like, wait a minute. This was your episode. Thing
well, as a veterinary nurse, I I mean you started with the first one. Is be who you are no matter what the person's level is in the clinic. Like if you're gonna
Angie (14:03)
Yeah.
JoJo (14:03)
show up mean, show up mean all the way through. Like just yeah, do it.
Angie (14:06)
You're like, be mean to that doctor too. Yeah,
yeah, yeah.
JoJo (14:09)
You know? what do I what do I
I think for me, something that we hate is that if we prescribed your pet a previsit sedation or pharmaceuticals, and then you just decide you're not gonna give them, and then you also don't give us warning that you're not gonna give them, and then you get angry that we have to schedule a second appointment because we aren't able to do what supposed to do,
Angie (14:33)
Yeah.
JoJo (14:33)
I find that so frustrating.
Angie (14:35)
It is. We feel pretty helpless and the reason why we feel helpless is because we feel bad for your pet.
JoJo (14:40)
yeah, they get to do it twice.
Angie (14:41)
Yeah. Yeah, we feel bad for your pet. That happens a lot where people
JoJo (14:44)
Yeah.
Angie (14:45)
are like, we're like, did you give, muffin her gabapentin? no. And we're like, okay, because
JoJo (14:49)
Yeah.
Angie (14:50)
last time we told you that we needed that. Remember, we couldn't get the blood because we didn't have that. And so
JoJo (14:56)
Yeah.
Angie (14:56)
at that point you're left saying, Okay, we're not gonna try, or we are gonna attempt this blood draw again because muffin got in the carrier and it's already, it's just yeah. Go ahead and give it.
JoJo (15:06)
Yeah, it just makes it bad for
everybody. Not just the staff.
Angie (15:08)
For everyone.
JoJo (15:09)
It's not that the staff is frustrated with your animal. That's not what's happening.
Angie (15:13)
No.
JoJo (15:13)
It's more of it's scary to tell you that you have to schedule another appointment and you still have to pay for this appointment. And it's sad for your pet that they have to do it twice.
Angie (15:22)
Yeah. Yeah.
JoJo (15:22)
So please just give the medication if we've all decided that's the path.
Angie (15:26)
Just do it.
JoJo (15:27)
that's one. I had another one while I was doing that. I really don't like when I'm getting a medical history and you don't tell me the full truth or give me the information of what you need from this appointment. And then Dr. Angie has to come in and find out, like, well, why didn't you tell me this?
And only 'cause I didn't get that information. You know,
Angie (15:45)
Right.
JoJo (15:46)
so it's just or it's like you're embarrassed or ashamed of well, let's just go with my story that's coming out next week that my dog got a pot cookie and you don't want anybody to know that you had pot in your house, but your dog is suffering and it's clear that your dog had pot. we do better with information.
Angie (16:02)
Right. Yeah. We're not gonna judge you. Yeah.
JoJo (16:05)
No, really not.
Angie (16:06)
Yeah. Tell us all. Tell us everything. Yeah.
JoJo (16:08)
Tell it tell us everything, please.
Angie (16:11)
I think those are my main gripes for this week. Those are like if I could have those three things eliminated. Because everyone thinks that the hardest part of my job is euthanizing animals. It's in fact not.
JoJo (16:24)
That's what everybody
when they hear you're a veterinarian or a vet tech they're like, I could never because I love animals. And I'm like,
Angie (16:31)
Yeah.
JoJo (16:31)
that's an interesting way to phrase that.
Angie (16:33)
Yeah.
JoJo (16:34)
I love animals.
Angie (16:35)
I know the hardest part of my job is when people are mean to me. That's
JoJo (16:39)
The hardest.
Angie (16:39)
that's the hardest part. Cause I'm trying so hard. And it's okay if I if I don't make you happy, I want you to find that vet that makes you happy. It's okay to not like me. It's okay to be frustrated if I'm behind. I get it. but I really don't like it when people are mean. I would really rather you
JoJo (16:54)
I think that's because we're empathic.
People in this field are empathic, so we feel everything. So sometimes you don't even
Angie (16:57)
Yes, we feel everything.
JoJo (16:59)
have to say you're disappointed. We know you're disappointed before we walk in that room. And
Angie (17:04)
I now
JoJo (17:05)
we're people pleasers by default. It's bad. It's a sickness. So I think
Angie (17:09)
So bad. Yeah. Yes, it is a sickness. Yeah.
JoJo (17:13)
that's what breaks me more than anything is when people are mean in terms of Yeah, you
Angie (17:18)
Yeah.
JoJo (17:18)
you you're in it for the money or you don't care. And like all I do is care.
Angie (17:24)
All we do is care. Yeah.
JoJo (17:25)
Yeah.
Angie (17:26)
So be nice to us.
JoJo (17:27)
Nope. Okay. That wasn't so bad.
Angie (17:29)
Okay.
Yeah, I feel like that was a good that was a good venting for me too. Those are the things that this week
JoJo (17:35)
Okay.
Angie (17:37)
that I'm just like, please don't do this. But we would love to know from you, what does your veterinarian do that you hate? Because this is a two-way relationship. Yeah. Girl same. Yeah.
JoJo (17:44)
Yeah, flip the script. Yeah. Definitely. They're gonna say late to appointments. Don't call me back. Yeah.
Angie (17:58)
Yeah. Okay. So wherever you're listening to this, let us know what we do that you hate. Cause you get to have you get to have it as much as we have it. And hopefully we can just always work on having a better relationship with each other so we can all help your pet live a happier and healthier life. And hit subscribe.
JoJo (18:17)
Yes. And if you want to schedule
time, is that where you were going? I'm gonna close it out.
Angie (18:22)
no, I wasn't. I wasn't even gonna
JoJo (18:24)
If you want to schedule time, if you wanna pay for Doctor Angie's time and have a dedicated forty five minutes, she does
Angie (18:31)
Yes.
JoJo (18:31)
offer consultations and they're amazing. I get to listen to them and they're amazing.
Angie (18:34)
Thank you. Where can they do that? How do they do that?
JoJo (18:36)
good, good.
Yeah, I'm not good at doing the outro. I can go to boulder holisticvet dot com and then there's a little oranges button that says book a consultation and just follow that through and there's open times. And if there's
Angie (18:50)
Yeah.
JoJo (18:50)
not, email us and we will make it happen.
Angie (18:52)
Okay. Fiona's in front of the stop button, so I'm gonna hit stop now. Okay, see you all later. Bye.
JoJo (19:01)
Take care.
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