Angie (00:01)
Welcome back to Tails of Truth, where we tell the truth about veterinary medicine. I'm Dr. Angie, and this is my co-host and veterinary nurse, Extraordinaire Jojo. And today we're gonna talk about why your indoor cat probably needs a rabies vaccine.
JoJo (00:17)
Everybody's gonna hate you at the end of this.
Angie (00:19)
I know. You can just tell me now, you're like, you're not even a holistic vet.
JoJo (00:23)
Yep, start there.
Angie (00:24)
And so I get why people are like, I don't really worry about vaccinating indoor cats. And I used to feel similarly, like it didn't bother me. but over the years my feeling has changed. And in Boulder, I'm seeing more rabid bats.
JoJo (00:41)
Yeah and Denver too.
Angie (00:42)
Interacting with my
and Denver too. Okay. Yeah.
JoJo (00:45)
Mm.
Angie (00:46)
I'm seeing more of those. And the problem is, is usually bats are out at night. Most cats are interacting with them, even if they're outdoor. You just don't think about cats interacting with bats. But bats do endemically have rabies. And so like it is endemic throughout the population. Not every bat has rabies, and bats are really great for the environment. And we love bats. This is no shade to bats.
No shade to bats out there. Yes. Like they do so
JoJo (01:11)
Love a bat. Yeah.
Angie (01:13)
much. And so we're I'm not trying to villainize the bats, but they can have rabies. And when they have rabies, their behavior changes. So maybe they're flying into windows. They are out on the ground during the day.
JoJo (01:28)
Say they're having daytime activity.
Angie (01:31)
Daytime activity and we've had two in the last year of our patients be exposed to bats, one confirmed rabies, we're waiting on the second one. And it's just important to keep your cat up to date with rabies for that reason.
JoJo (01:48)
Yeah. Or your indoor outdoor cat doesn't just have to be an indoor cat. Outdoor cat a thousand percent. No question.
Angie (01:55)
Yeah, but indoor cat too.
JoJo (01:57)
Yeah. Specifically indoor.
Angie (01:59)
Yeah, 'cause I and I get why people are like, Do I really need to do that? And I always tell them, I'm like, worst case scenario, your cat interacts with a rabid bat and they're like, Well, that's never gonna happen. But we've had two in the past year, or at least we we're waiting for testing on the second one.
JoJo (02:15)
gonna say even in the city because I think that's kind of always been my line like well if you have an indoor cat in the city your exposure risk is so low but in Denver I have a friend who's had one exposed like
Angie (02:26)
really?
JoJo (02:26)
their cat exposed and I was reading about another one I'm like okay maybe that's not
Angie (02:31)
Yeah.
JoJo (02:32)
a very safe way to play this because guys the process the process is so stressful yeah it really
Angie (02:39)
That's really scary. Yeah.
JoJo (02:42)
is
You wanna talk through the process. So if a cat and it's not even that your cat caught the bat or anything. Let's just say you find a bat in your house and you don't know if your cat has had an interaction with that bat, you still have to go through the same process.
Angie (02:56)
Yeah. So you knew the they'll test the bat. They, public health department. And your cat needs to get a booster of rabies at that time. So this last cat that I had this past year. there was an exposure to the bat. We don't know if the cat interacted with the bat, but the bat flew into a house and died. And then we tested the bat. It was positive for rabies. but even before that we vaccinated the cat, the cat was up to date.
on the rabies vaccine, which you know keeps them from quarantine, keeps them alive. Because the state veterinarian, if your animal has been exposed to a rabid animal and they are not up to date on their vaccines, I mean they can try to force you to euthanize your animal. I just feel like this gosh
JoJo (03:43)
It's so stressful. So stressful.
Angie (03:46)
It stresses me out. yeah.
JoJo (03:47)
Emotionally taxing. Yeah.
Angie (03:51)
And so when I saw that this cat was up to date on rabies, you just think, okay, this is gonna be fine. We're this is gonna be fine. and so yeah, I and then if we maybe maybe the bat was never able to be tested, then your cat goes into a quarantine and that's really stressful, and then everyone has to get
post exposure rabies prophylaxis, which I've never had to do, knock on wood. That sounds terrible. I hated my rabies vaccines more than anything. Yeah.
JoJo (04:17)
Yeah, I've heard it's just awful. And it's like
if you have kids in the house it's everybody. Everybody in the house.
Angie (04:24)
Yeah, yeah. So I have two indoor cats. Every once in a while they go out on my back deck with me. but I have I I have vaccinated them.
JoJo (04:35)
For rabies.
Angie (04:36)
yeah, yeah. Earlier in the summer I vaccinated them. And to make it more complicated, they both got sick for a day. And so I was like
JoJo (04:46)
I know. Yeah. So you have
decisions to make three years from now about are you gonna
Angie (04:51)
Yeah, I do.
JoJo (04:53)
revaccinate them?
Angie (04:54)
I am. I am because so for one day they were lethargic and didn't eat one day. And I don't like that. I don't see that very often. But I was like, Of course this is gonna happen to my cats and to both of them. but I think that's worth it because, you know, I have two kids in my house and
I I love these cats. I I want them to stay alive. I don't I don't want to put their their well being in jeopardy. And so I will take that one day of not feeling good. And do we consider that a vaccine reaction? I don't know that we actually do because I think we do allow a day of lethargy. And I don't know that that's really an adverse event.
JoJo (05:38)
Well yeah, in human medicine, I feel that way after vaccines. So
Angie (05:42)
Yeah.
JoJo (05:43)
maybe that's just an immune response, a natural r
Angie (05:45)
Yeah.
JoJo (05:46)
immune response.
Angie (05:47)
Yeah, they did they felt funky and then they were fine. Like both of them. It was like literally twenty four hours and then they were both fine. And so I will
JoJo (05:55)
Because if your
cats were not vaccinated, so if that cat had the bat in the house and was unvaccinated, then what's the protocol?
Angie (06:03)
It's up to the state vet.
JoJo (06:05)
Well, first they
they take the bat. So if you find the bat, keep the bat. Cause
Angie (06:09)
Keep the bat. Yeah.
JoJo (06:11)
they can send the bat off for testing. Which I think is like a four-day turnaround. Which I
Angie (06:15)
Is it?
JoJo (06:16)
wish it was like a twenty-four hour turnaround. Cause then you can make so many more decisions in real time rather than having to think what if? Cause if the bat's
Angie (06:23)
Yeah, exactly.
JoJo (06:25)
negative, you'd make different choices for the humans in the house.
Angie (06:28)
Right. Like their post exposure, prophylaxis. Yeah. Yeah. So I've decided.
JoJo (06:29)
Yeah. Ugh. Okay. So the protocol is
they come take the bat. We didn't get to the protocol. They come take the bat.
Angie (06:37)
They come through
JoJo (06:38)
Your cat needs to go get updated immediately
Angie (06:41)
Yes.
JoJo (06:41)
on the rabies vaccine. A titer will not count in this situation.
Angie (06:46)
No. I mean the titer will let you know where the immunity was sitting in that moment. And so you could always do both, but it won't
JoJo (06:51)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Angie (06:53)
be enough by itself.
JoJo (06:55)
But the titer's not gonna come back for weeks.
Angie (06:57)
The titer's not gonna come back for I mean
JoJo (07:00)
I think it's like seven days. Like a full week, 'cause I think they only test on one day a week for
Angie (07:06)
Yeah. I mean, it could be up to two weeks, but I don't know if like you called and because K State's the one that does it. I don't know if you called them and was like, Hey, can you do this earlier? I don't know if they would do that. 'Cause I mean I don't
JoJo (07:16)
Yeah. It
Angie (07:18)
I doubt they even do it every day.
JoJo (07:20)
Yeah. So you're updating your cat on on their rabies vaccine and
Angie (07:24)
Yeah.
JoJo (07:25)
then you are quarantining them either until the bat results come back or forty five days. I think it's one or the other.
Angie (07:31)
Yeah, and I if they were already up to date on their vaccine, you don't have to quarantine them. But if they weren't,
JoJo (07:37)
Hmm. okay. Mm hmm.
Angie (07:40)
yeah.
JoJo (07:41)
Who's monitoring that? They're just trusting that you're keeping your cat isolated at home?
Angie (07:46)
The public health department. They come by.
JoJo (07:48)
Yeah, but they're just trusting like for the next forty five days? Or do they do random pop ins for compliance?
Angie (07:50)
Mm. Yeah, I mean they I think they do random pop ins
and sometimes I think they will take the cat or dog.
if they you know how depending on how worried they are.
JoJo (08:02)
Yeah.
Angie (08:03)
So like just avoid all of it.
JoJo (08:05)
Mm-hmm.
Angie (08:06)
Just avoid and keep your cat up to date. Now, if your cat has an autoimmune disease or
Has had life threatening vaccine reactions or you know, obviously there's a time and a place to say I'm I'm taking this risk. but if I'm like really advocating for you and your cat, I'm gonna say just keep your indoor cat up to date on rabies vaccines. Yeah.
JoJo (08:27)
Yep. And
that's I feel like the only vaccine that you're really gonna double down on for an indoor cat.
Angie (08:36)
Yes. I mean dou Yes.
JoJo (08:37)
Like if they had to choose one, choose the rabies.
Angie (08:41)
If I get one, that is the one
JoJo (08:43)
Mm-hmm.
Angie (08:43)
I want. Yeah, absolutely. I mean I do like the F V R C P vaccine, depending on how many they've had and what their lifestyle is. But if I could just have one, it would definitely be a rabies vaccine. 'Cause I want I want everyone to live.
JoJo (08:55)
Yeah. It's a peace of mind
vaccine because rabies is fatal.
Angie (09:00)
Uniformly.
JoJo (09:00)
You know, F V R C P not as much. Depending on age,
Angie (09:03)
So if your
JoJo (09:04)
right?
Angie (09:05)
if your cat has panleukopenia, they're probably not gonna make it.
JoJo (09:08)
Mm.
Angie (09:09)
All the other ones in there, your cat's probably gonna make it. You know, so it's like I mean, pan leukopenia is important. So I want your cat to have at least had some as a kitten, like at the minimum. And then if you are fostering kittens, then I want them to stay up to date on that. Cause I don't I don't wanna
JoJo (09:23)
Yeah.
Angie (09:23)
mess around with pan leukopenia.
JoJo (09:26)
Yeah.
Angie (09:26)
It's a yucky virus that's hard to survive.
But it doesn't kill people, so it puts it in a different class, right?
JoJo (09:32)
I
was gonna say the same thing. I'm like, can we just classify the rabies? Is cross species fatal?
Angie (09:39)
Yeah.
Like it's gonna kill your family members or you too.
JoJo (09:44)
Yeah, and it's not just bats, we should probably say that too. I think bats like
Angie (09:48)
Ri
JoJo (09:48)
I think automatically everybody thinks bats. Like if you find a bat, I feel like it's just programmed in us to go, my gosh, does it have rabies? But skunk
Angie (09:56)
Good.
JoJo (09:57)
skunks have rabies.
Angie (09:58)
Skunks can have rabies. Dogs can have,
JoJo (10:00)
Dogs can have rabies.
Angie (10:03)
yeah. I mean, we worry about that less often, but they can. They can.
JoJo (10:06)
Well, I think there's like
this trend right now to not vaccinate for rabies.
Angie (10:10)
Yeah, there's a lot of fear mongering out there about the side effects of the rabies vaccine. Because it's a virus that affects the central nervous system, they assume that the vaccine is more likely to affect the central nervous system. And
JoJo (10:25)
Mm-hmm.
Angie (10:26)
that's not really how vaccines work. Because
JoJo (10:29)
Right.
Angie (10:30)
it's a you know, it's it's not like we're actually infecting your dog with or your cat with rabies.
JoJo (10:34)
Rabbi's. Yeah.
Angie (10:37)
Yeah, we're we're giving it the body a piece of the virus so it can make antibodies to it. And the reason why they might not feel good afterwards, like the reason why my cats didn't feel good is because their own immune system was mounting a response to that. It's
JoJo (10:53)
Mm-hmm. Doing exactly what it was supposed to do.
Angie (10:56)
doing exactly what it's supposed to do, and I made them feel crummy for a day. And I will plug that for cats, I only use the purevax.
And I only put it below the knee. So if we're gonna be
JoJo (11:07)
Mm-hmm. I wasn't saying that.
Angie (11:09)
talking about rabies vaccines and I'm gonna be promoting them, I want you to get that pure vax. It's more expensive, it's worth it. Like I think our pure vax three year vaccines is like n ninety bucks. Yeah.
JoJo (11:19)
Yes, about ninety, somewhere like that.
Angie (11:22)
Yeah. So it's it's pretty expensive. It's worth it. And then I want you to make sure that your veterinary team is putting it below the knee or below the elbow if they're doing the front leg or in the tail. so
JoJo (11:32)
Mm-hmm. And
if you want to know more about that, go back to one of our very first episodes. Like, if you have
Angie (11:38)
Yes.
JoJo (11:38)
fear around vaccines in your cat, we did a whole episode about
Angie (11:41)
Yes, we did.
JoJo (11:43)
the different types, where to put them, why we do what we do. Like it's a deep dive.
Angie (11:47)
Yes. It is a deep dive.
JoJo (11:49)
I think you have a course on that too, which I feel really weird as I say think. But I'm pretty sure. I'm pretty
Angie (11:52)
I know. Well we've done so much stuff, JoJo.
JoJo (11:55)
sure we have a course on our site. So why don't you roll us out with that?
Angie (11:58)
Should I go look and make sure that we have a course on the site before I here? I'm I'm gonna look. So Jojo
JoJo (12:01)
Sure. Yeah.
Angie (12:04)
and I like we produce so many projects and so much content that sometimes it's hard to remember like, do we still have that up or?
JoJo (12:11)
Yeah, or
is it like in draft mode or what did we do with that one?
Angie (12:14)
Is it in draft? Yes,
let's see. yes.
JoJo (12:19)
I think it's called the truth about vaccines in cats.
Angie (12:22)
Yeah, the truth about vaccines for cats. Absolutely. Absolutely. And we've made that quite a few years ago.
JoJo (12:28)
Yeah, I might need an update.
Angie (12:30)
it might need an update. We should do that soon. We'll put it on the list. Okay,
JoJo (12:33)
Yeah, we should. Yeah.
Angie (12:35)
so if you want to get that course for free, because you hung in here and talked about rabies vaccines with us, you can go to boulderholisticvet.com.
and go to learn with us. And then if you go to the course tab, you can find that course and you can use the code TruthTails right? Is that the code? Okay. Spell. I'd ask every time.
JoJo (12:55)
I know I
did the outro and I was like, This doesn't sound right. Yeah.
Angie (12:58)
I know, I'm like, what am I saying?
T A L E S or T A I L S, both codes work and you can get that for free. So give it a watch. Let us know if you're vaccinating your indoor cat for rabies. I'm sure we'll have a a fair amount of people that will be upset with my recommendation. So mad.
JoJo (13:14)
Be so mad. Yeah.
Really, we're just trying to protect you and your cat.
Angie (13:20)
Trying to keep your cat alive. So, okay. Okay, see you next time.
JoJo (13:22)
Okay. Thanks for listening.
Angie (13:24)
Bye.
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