Angie (00:00)
Welcome back to Tails of Truth where we tell the truth about veterinary medicine. I'm Dr. Angie and this is my co-host and veterinary nurse extraordinaire Jojo. And today we want to talk about supplements for cats and dogs. Should you do them? Do your pets really need them? Is it all a scam? Yeah.

JoJo (00:18)
How do you trust them?

As somebody who's so easily influenced, I'll buy anything

Angie (00:24)
Gosh me too.

JoJo (00:25)
off TikTok, Dr. Angie

With the right marketing. Sold. I don't know how many times I put Korean skincare in my box. In my cart. And for

Angie (00:33)
Right, so you can look 20 years younger.

JoJo (00:36)
the last two years, I put it in the cart, out of the cart, in the cart, out of the cart. And I

bet people are doing this with supplements for their pets too. Because

cats and dogs on videos can make a supplement seem really, really enticing.

Angie (00:50)
Yes. Can I tell you a story about the bad decision, the supplement I bought and then couldn't give?

JoJo (00:55)
Yes, what did you buy?

Angie (00:57)
And so this was, it was perfect. So my oldest daughter has had like rock bottom iron to the point where she just doesn't like even want to get out of bed. Like she's so tired and we had to wait to get a referral to have her see children's and now she's had five iron infusions. But before, when I felt desperate.

I was marketed to on Instagram about how these women had low ferritin and this one supplement brought their ferritin up to 70. And they were just little film, like little, you know, those little supplement films that you can put under your tongue. So it's like transmucosal. And like, I, I felt so emotional about her

JoJo (01:40)
Hm.

Angie (01:41)
and about her fatigue. And I felt so desperate and we had been trying to get her iron up for like a year. And,

I bought them and I just was like instantly like, yes, click, click. And I, I know better. And so it arrived and she's like, mom, what's this? And I looked at her and I looked at it I was like, it's something I bought in a really emotional state. And I don't think you should actually take those because I don't know what's actually in them. You know, there's no

JoJo (02:08)
Yeah.

Angie (02:09)
safety around that. I couldn't actually give it to her. So I just have the, was like, paid like $60 for it because at the

JoJo (02:16)
Huh.

Angie (02:16)
time.

I would have done anything to help her.

JoJo (02:19)
I love that that's the story you told because that is the driver. Right? It's either

Angie (02:23)
That's the driver.

JoJo (02:24)
a want, a need, a fear. And

Angie (02:26)
Yes.

JoJo (02:27)
I would say that is my number one judgment of should I buy this, should I not? Is it being sold to me in fear?

Angie (02:35)
Yes.

JoJo (02:36)
Fear is fantastic marketing.

Angie (02:40)
Yes.

JoJo (02:40)
That's a great question. Like if you're

Angie (02:41)
Yeah.

JoJo (02:42)
watching an ad, like what are they what are they telling me to be afraid of?

Angie (02:47)
Yes, they're marketing to your emotions, which, you know, is effective. Obviously I knew better, bought that anyway, spent the money and just have this supplement that I'm not even going to take for myself. And I know my iron's low right now and I'm still not going to do it. I'm going to go get an infusion of iron. But I think that this happens with pets too. And I see the marketing all the time. They're either trashing veterinarians.

they're

JoJo (03:10)
não.

Angie (03:10)
saying like, did you know that your senior pet could live longer?

JoJo (03:16)
I hate those ones. Like sometimes they

Angie (03:17)
Ugh, it's the worst.

JoJo (03:19)
say two or three years. Don't you want two or three more years with your pet? And I'm like, well yeah. Yeah, but your supplement

Angie (03:24)
Right. Right. And of course.

JoJo (03:28)
is not gonna get that for my pet.

Angie (03:30)
It's not, and what really irritates me is how then you'll have people come on and say, I thought I was gonna have to euthanize my dog, but then I started this supplement and now he's totally fine. And I look at the supplement and it's like a probiotic or something and you're like, that's not possible. That's not possible.

JoJo (03:50)
Yeah, but I guarantee

you I will buy that if I'm a consumer

Angie (03:53)
I know.

JoJo (03:53)
who's like, I want to do everything I possibly can to get one more day.

Angie (03:58)
Right? my gosh, yes. And especially people that have had their pets diagnosed with cancer, that's the most desperate time. And

JoJo (04:06)
Hm.

Angie (04:07)
then people will buy anything because of course I remember my mom was diagnosed with cancer, like terminal cancer. She was gonna die. I mean, the things that the family did were unhinged, like the types of therapies, because at that point everyone knew chemo really wasn't gonna work. So were like,

what strange Hail Mary can we do now? And so that desperation of how do I get my dog off apoquel that's another one I see is like, I

JoJo (04:34)
Yeah.

Angie (04:34)
was paying for apoquel which that stuff is expensive.

JoJo (04:36)
It is expensive.

Angie (04:38)
I've been paying for apoquel and then I hear it's really bad. And then I just gave my dog this Omega supplement and now I don't need apoquel. And I just think, my gosh, if it were that easy, we wouldn't need apoquel.

JoJo (04:50)
Yeah. But then I get confused

because I'm like, where do all these positive reviews come from? Is it

Angie (04:57)
Could someone

comment and tell us how that, like someone that's listening to this podcast is going to understand marketing, social media, the algorithm, these ads, because where do they come from?

JoJo (05:07)
Yeah. Because I guarantee you somebody's cat didn't live three years longer or their kidney disease reversed because of one supplement

Angie (05:15)
Yeah.

JoJo (05:16)
that they took.

Angie (05:17)
Yeah. It's super unfair.

JoJo (05:17)
Ugh

maybe I feel mad about this actually. Maybe because

Angie (05:21)
Maybe we do.

JoJo (05:22)
I'm influenced, like it's happened to me for sure in desperate moments.

Angie (05:25)
Mm-hmm.

JoJo (05:26)
Where do anything I have a whole cupboard of supplements for myself of half taken bottles.

Angie (05:32)
Yeah. I worked with... Well, but here's the deal. Here's what's up.

JoJo (05:34)
I'm being mad at myself because I'm like, shame. I am this person. Yeah.

Angie (05:42)
No, I am this person too. And I think that supplements can be really helpful. Like I can tell you that when my vitamin D is like between 60 and 80, I feel a lot better than when my vitamin D is at five. And when my...

vitamin B levels are normal, I feel a lot better. it's like, supplementation can be helpful, but how do you kind of sift through the grifters of social

JoJo (06:13)
Yeah.

Angie (06:14)
media that are trying to scare you? Yeah.

JoJo (06:16)
So that's what we need to talk about. We need to talk about

how does someone know a supplement is safe? How do they know that it's worth purchasing? when would they use a supplement? And is a supplement always the answer? I feel like those are four data points we could we could touch on. And I

Angie (06:32)
Yeah.

JoJo (06:32)
had this moment. So you're gonna talk for a moment. I wanna look in Chewy and just see how many supplements Chewy sells.

Angie (06:39)
my gosh, do it.

JoJo (06:39)
I just I just wanna I just wanna

look. But so you go ahead and talk about while I'm looking.

Angie (06:45)
Okay. I mean, one thing I will say is that I, I mean, we sell supplements on our website. So I sell supplements that I believe in that I believe are helpful. Yes. Like, and that I know have good manufacturing, protocols and standards. And they have in them what they say they have in them. And, and so I think that's the first place to start. anyone can start a supplement company.

I have helped design supplements for different companies, mostly like pet food brands that are trying to add supplements to their lines. anybody can do it. Anybody can do it. So you just need to find someone that can package them. And then usually you go to some kind of co-packer and anyone can design a chew and then sell it on the market. What'd you find?

JoJo (07:38)
Hmm.

Well, if I just look up dog vitamins and supplement category on Chewy, there's over ninety five

Angie (07:44)
Mm-hmm.

JoJo (07:45)
pages.

Angie (07:45)
Wow, and then how many per page?

Does it tell you?

JoJo (07:48)
It's gotta be

About forty per page.

Angie (07:50)
Okay, yeah. And there's more than nine. Okay.

JoJo (07:51)
Fifty. It's probably fifty. Yeah.

Angie (07:54)
And there's more than 95 pages.

JoJo (07:56)
There's

more than 95 pages. And that is just in the vitamin supplement section

Angie (08:01)
Right.

JoJo (08:02)
for dogs. I and that's where it's like, how do you even know? How do you

even

Angie (08:06)
Yes.

JoJo (08:06)
know which one? And if I were doing it, I'd probably go, okay, which one has five stars? You know? Like that's how

Angie (08:11)
Right.

JoJo (08:12)
I would probably do it.

Angie (08:14)
And who's leaving these five-star reviews? And that's the tricky part is, just circle back to that. Where are these reviews coming from? And then people go to their veterinarians and veterinarians are like, I don't know. And so then I think there's

JoJo (08:26)
Yeah.

Angie (08:27)
just like this gap of information. And so people are like, yeah, no, they're going to buy what they find on Instagram because the ads are good.

JoJo (08:34)
Yeah, I think that's how it would work for me. I could never go to an Amazon or a Chewy and be like sift through 95 pages trying to figure out which one is best for my dog. So it would have to be somebody has come on Instagram or TikTok and convinced me that this is the path forward. Yeah.

Angie (08:47)
Right. Yep.

JoJo (08:51)
Or my veterinarian. I would trust my veterinarian. Who is not sifted,

Angie (08:53)
Yes. Yeah. I

JoJo (08:55)
I guarantee you, through ninety five pages, probably hasn't heard of half these brands.

Angie (09:00)
Well, I'll tell you like 90 % of the supplements I see because people bring them in or when we were making house calls, you know how people would bring out their basket of supplements

JoJo (09:08)
Yeah. Uh-huh.

Angie (09:09)
and then we would go through them. And as someone who's helped design some of these supplements, I can tell you that the majority of them don't have therapeutic doses of whatever is in there. And so are you hurting anything? Like let's assume there's not toxic.

Amounts of heavy metals or weird stuff in there. So let's assume that what they say is in the supplement is in the supplement Which I think is a very generous assumption and shouldn't always be made but just for the thought exercise even if it's safe It might not be effective and it's likely not and I often see that when you'll have like a chewable form and it'll have a million things in it and I guarantee you

the manufacturer couldn't get all of those things in there and have it be palatable because I've had to make those negotiations of like, okay, I L-theanine in here and I want it at this milligram per kilogram of dosage. So you'll go on the back of the bottle and I'll say like, okay, for zero to 15 pounds, this is how many chews you need. And so there's always these negotiations of what is therapeutic, like what we know is therapeutic with L-theanine.

and what you can cram in that chew and it not taste disgusting, you know? yeah.

JoJo (10:25)
Especially for our cat people. I mean I know there are other dogs

that are just garbage cans or like whatever. Yeah,

Angie (10:30)
Right.

JoJo (10:31)
give it to me. But cats are not that way

Angie (10:33)
Yeah.

JoJo (10:33)
typically.

Angie (10:35)
No. And so we sell CBD chews, but it's the only thing in there. And

JoJo (10:40)
Huh.

Angie (10:40)
so you're just getting, hemp in there and not, a million different supplements. And some companies do it pretty well. and I think chews can be a good route for dogs that are picky or sometimes it just feels good. You know, it's like a nice.

emotional, like food is love and now I'm actually it's functional. It's like a functional treat, but it's not necessarily therapeutic.

JoJo (11:04)
Do think it's also fair to say that in a chew it may not be evenly distributed? So for example, I ordered a C B D chew for myself off of TikTok. Again, it got here and it had more THC than it said it did. Like if I had not read the label, so I think they were doing that to get away with.

Angie (11:23)
You ordered THC off of TikTok? That's what I want to go back to.

JoJo (11:27)
I didn't know that I was. I thought it was 'cause they advertise it as less than the zero point three percent THC to make it, but if you do it out by bag or by dose, it was more and I have noticed that not every chew makes me feel the same.

Angie (11:43)
no. Wait, so did you get high?

JoJo (11:44)
So sometimes I'm like, this is great. And then

the next time I'm like, peel me off the couch, I'm not okay. So I'm like, is that possible that if it's in a chew form

Angie (11:53)
Yeah. Yeah.

JoJo (11:55)
it may not be evenly distributed?

Angie (11:58)
Totally. It depends on what their manufacturing processes are. And so some choose, like if you break them in half, you don't know exactly, where the active ingredients are. I mean, we think about that a lot with like marijuana gummies.

JoJo (12:12)
Uh-huh.

Angie (12:13)
People do. No one's giving marijuana gummies to their pets. Please don't do that. Yeah.

JoJo (12:16)
Yeah, thank you for clarifying that. Yeah.

Angie (12:18)
But we think about that in Colorado somewhere. There's, you know, marijuana gummies are part of like culture here. And so

that could be the same with the six. So if you're like, I only need to give a half. You don't really know if you're the active ingredients are in that half, like how things settled out.

JoJo (12:34)
Right, exactly. Yeah.

It's like pot brownies when people do that. They're like, You might get a pot

Angie (12:40)
No.

JoJo (12:41)
brownie with nothing and you might get one with a so much. It's just not

Angie (12:44)
my gosh.

JoJo (12:45)
it's not a fun experience for people yeah, who

Angie (12:47)
Sounds like a nightmare.

JoJo (12:49)
are sensitive. That's not the point of this episode. There is a way also that I think about with with supplements for pets. There's is it N A S C National Association

Angie (13:00)
Yes.

JoJo (13:01)
of Supplement Council?

That's what stands for. So

Angie (13:03)
Yes. Yeah.

JoJo (13:04)
if somebody's gone through the process of getting third party tested or to get the seal, it's kind of like the the businesses that want to be clean, then they go for the B corp certification.

Angie (13:17)
Yeah.

JoJo (13:18)
Like it's a whole in depth process. And I feel like if

Angie (13:21)
Right.

JoJo (13:21)
somebody's doing that, that they're taking active measures too.

Angie (13:25)
Yeah, that is a green flag. It's a green flag.

JoJo (13:28)
Mm. I like that. It's a green flag. Yeah.

Angie (13:30)
Yeah, but it doesn't necessarily mean your pet needs that. And so I think it needs a supplement. Yeah. So

JoJo (13:34)
Mm. needs a supplement. Yeah.

Angie (13:38)
it is a good, like to see that, I think it's a yellow, it's a circle,

like an oval.

JoJo (13:41)
It's yellow, yeah.

Angie (13:43)
To see that is a good sign, but it doesn't necessarily mean that it's gonna be effective.

JoJo (13:49)
So when and we have a supplement episode for dogs and when for specifically with arthritis and what's useful, not useful. 'Cause I

Angie (13:56)
Mm-hmm.

JoJo (13:57)
felt like we had to pick a lane because there's supplements for everything.

Angie (14:00)
There are supplements.

JoJo (14:01)
Probiotics are typically I was gonna say benign, but then that suggests that they don't do as much as they do.

Angie (14:06)
Right. mean, some dogs get diarrhea on probiotics.

JoJo (14:09)
yeah, that's true. Anything anything

Angie (14:10)
Yeah.

JoJo (14:11)
that you give that's gonna be ingested has a potential for GI upset. Anything.

Angie (14:16)
Yeah,

anything. doesn't really matter. And so now, like, how do you decide what your dog needs? And when do you reach for the supplement first versus the traditional Western therapy?

JoJo (14:30)
Or diet or, you know, if you want to stay holistic, can you go clean foods or

Angie (14:35)
Yeah.

My philosophy overall is if I have a good diet, I shouldn't need that many supplements.

JoJo (14:41)
Uh-huh.

Angie (14:41)
I like some, but I really never want my clients to need a basket just for the supplements alone.

JoJo (14:51)
Yeah.

Angie (14:52)
I really don't want that. if we're doing diet right, hopefully we're not going to be adding all

these things, but there are things that are helpful. mean, fish oil is one of the most underrated supplements. I think that's helpful for almost any condition.

JoJo (15:10)
Cognitive health.

Angie (15:11)
Yeah. Skin health. Yeah. Heart

JoJo (15:13)
Joint health, yeah, skin health.

Angie (15:16)
health, kidney health.

JoJo (15:18)
Can help with anxiety they're finding.

Angie (15:21)
That makes so much sense. Yeah.

JoJo (15:22)
Yeah.

Angie (15:23)
So I feel like that's one that's worth doing, buying a high quality supplement.

JoJo (15:27)
But the a lot of the high quality foods are b building in that, is it not enough? Okay. Okay, so adding that on would be useful.

Angie (15:38)
Yes, yes, adding on some kind of fish oil. I'll never say no to that.

JoJo (15:45)
And brands we like, Rx Vitamins, Nordic Naturals. Those are pretty good.

Angie (15:49)
Yes,

those are my top two that I've been using for a long time that have good practices. Let's see, what else? mean, probiotics can be helpful. The thing about probiotics is you have to use them for a long, long time.

JoJo (16:07)
Yeah. Don't they say

Angie (16:09)
So.

JoJo (16:09)
six to eight weeks prior to antibiotics is ideal? And I'm like, who has time to do it six to eight weeks before? If you need antibiotics,

Angie (16:16)
my gosh.

JoJo (16:17)
you're not waiting two months to start.

Angie (16:20)
No. Oh, interesting. Okay.

Well, I mean, guess we should all be on probiotics. I'm on my third round of antibiotics for this year. So I'm going to... I know.

JoJo (16:27)
So bad. Huh.

Angie (16:30)
Like, so in between. And it's so funny because what I did is I just opened a bottle of VisBiome at the clinic. And

JoJo (16:36)
Uh-huh.

Angie (16:37)
so I take my antibiotic in the morning and then in the evening and then midday I take a VisBiome, the veterinary version of VisBiome. It's the same. It's fine. Yeah.

JoJo (16:42)
There you go. That works. Yeah. I mean we have some

human formulations that we use for pets. The pure encapsulations.

Angie (16:52)
totally. Yeah.

JoJo (16:54)
There's another brand that we like. Thorn. What other brands? Art Can We Trust?

Angie (16:56)
Yes.

Thorne. I don't know. It's tricky. Like if you go to Vitamin Cottage, like they have all kinds of brands and I think some of them are worth trusting and some of them aren't. it's unless you have a relationship with that brand, it's hard to know. I really like real mushrooms. think mushrooms are the next thing and we'll have Rob Silver on at the end of the summer.

JoJo (17:23)
Yeah.

Angie (17:23)
a

veterinarian that probably knows everything about mushrooms and we could,

JoJo (17:26)
And C B D.

Angie (17:28)
and CBD, and we could ask him what he thinks about how we would evaluate all the different mushroom supplements all over the place. Because I know, I've had some conversations with him. I know he's going to tell us they're not all created equally. Yeah.

JoJo (17:45)
they're not. Yeah.

I mean, there's a difference between like fruiting body and what kind of soil or yeah,

Angie (17:51)
Yeah.

JoJo (17:52)
there's so much that goes into it. If you can get a third party COA, so a certificate of analysis from a supplement company, I think that says something about their values. I've noticed that the pet food companies are now it seems like the home delivery companies all have a supplement they'll sell you. And I was like

Angie (18:10)
really?

JoJo (18:11)
Huh. To me that was a little yellow flag of what are you trying to sell me to supplement the food you're selling me?

Angie (18:18)
Right. Well, I think people want to buy supplements and so people see it as a money grab instead of, I think this dog could benefit from this supplement for this reason. so I think it's kind of tricky.

JoJo (18:32)
Yeah. And do cats and

Angie (18:33)
Yeah.

JoJo (18:34)
dogs need a multi? Like a multivitamin?

Angie (18:37)
They

really shouldn't if we're doing their diet correctly, they really

JoJo (18:42)
Yeah.

Angie (18:43)
shouldn't need that. And I know that, you know, there's a lot of discussion about how we've depleted the soil and our food supply doesn't supply everything. But the thing is with dogs and cats is we're like calculating their caloric vitamin mineral needs, energy needs really specifically. So hopefully we are getting that correctly.

accomplished because they really shouldn't need a multivitamin.

JoJo (19:07)
Yeah. So since you sell supplements, what I mean you sell supplements for what cases? What do you

keep in stock for?

Angie (19:14)
I

yeah, I mean, I definitely keep CBD in stock because that feels like an herb. So that's when

I feel like that's Dr. Angie doing plant medicine and not

JoJo (19:25)
Okay.

Angie (19:26)
so much like this is a supplement, although it is a supplement. like I said, I like omegas. I like things that support digestive health. I see a lot of problems with digestive health.

things like glutamine or herbs that are gonna help soothe the gut or anything that's going to help decrease inflammation so that I can help my patients establish a better microbiome. I like those things. Dogs and now cats, I see more cats that are itchy, but itchy dogs need a lot of help with their skin barrier. They need a lot of support both topically and internally to help combat all

of those diseases. I am an herbalist, so I like to use Chinese herbs. And so

JoJo (20:07)
Huh?

Angie (20:07)
a lot of the supplements we use, like the renal beadlets, it does have some vitamins and minerals, but it also has Chinese herbs. And so I

JoJo (20:15)
Right.

Angie (20:16)
love it for that reason, because then I'm changing blood flow to the kidneys. And so I would say I'm more into the plant medicine and less into like, let's just supplement.

a bunch of random vitamin and minerals.

JoJo (20:32)
I mean, I would say our shelves are heavily stocked for anxiety as well.

Angie (20:36)
Yes, yes.

JoJo (20:38)
and oral health, probably.

Angie (20:40)
Yes.

Yeah. Also really important.

JoJo (20:43)
So there's a lot of stuff out there now for putting in the water for oral health or just have your dog chew on this hard bones and or dental chews and they won't have plaque buildup and

Angie (20:57)
Right.

JoJo (20:58)
I'm sorry that everybody's bombarded with

Angie (21:01)
I know the only reason I like any of those things. I think some of them can be helpful mechanically. think sometimes they also contribute to tooth fractures, but I appreciate that people are thinking about their pets oral health. So if that means they have to hand them that, chew treat that is for oral health and they're thinking about it, then that's great. But I always tell people like brushing their dog or cat's teeth is like number one.

I don't brush my cat's teeth, I want to, it's aspirational, but that's number one. Like that's the best thing you could do. And then all these other things help maybe like 5%. And so it's not that they're not worth doing, but if it makes you think about the fact that your cat or dog has any type of dental disease, then I'm for it.

JoJo (21:51)
I think I just want to leave people with don't drive yourself bananas in the depth of research on what about this one versus this one versus this one versus this one and how to decide and how to choose and it's gonna save my cat's life or it's gonna save my dog's life. And I d I know that maybe your veterinarian doesn't have the space to have a conversation about every supplement that you can find out there. So

Angie (22:12)
Yeah.

JoJo (22:13)
find

companies you trust and the reason you feel your pet needs it and maybe the vet can talk to that. if can you you ha you have space in your exam room to speak to, like, hey, I feel like this supplement might help my cat or dog. You're gonna speak to that.

Angie (22:28)
Yes.

JoJo (22:29)
If somebody brings it.

Angie (22:30)
Yes. And people often ask me like, hey, I've been giving this. Is it helpful? What do you think about this? And a lot of my consult time, you're going attest to this, is spent paring down. Like people will come

JoJo (22:42)
Yes.

Angie (22:43)
with a list of 15 supplements. And

JoJo (22:46)
Mm-hmm.

Angie (22:47)
I spend probably the last five or 10 minutes of a lot of consults saying, you don't need this. This is OK. These two are the same exact supplement.

JoJo (22:56)
Yep.

Angie (22:57)
And so.

and especially with cats.

JoJo (22:57)
Which you know what I just

heard in that? From a little dollar signs in my head? A consultation with you might save people money. Like it

Angie (23:05)
That's true.

JoJo (23:07)
might feel like an investment, but she's not being dishonest here. Like she pares those down. Like

Angie (23:13)
Yes.

JoJo (23:14)
and and it probably helps your relationship with your pet 'cause most of don't want all that stuff in their food. Or for you to

Angie (23:19)
Yes.

JoJo (23:20)
be pilling them. Some of those supplements are

Being pilled. It's just

Angie (23:25)
I know some cats

are so tolerant of all the pilling. Like,

JoJo (23:28)
Yeah.

Angie (23:29)
it's not helping enough. I'm all for pilling when we need to, but if you have to have a good reason,

JoJo (23:34)
Yeah.

Angie (23:35)
compelling reason.

JoJo (23:37)
Okay. Did we did we cover it? Like that I feel like it's such a big topic.

Angie (23:42)
We absolutely did not cover it. And I think we covered

JoJo (23:44)
Ha ha ha.

Angie (23:44)
it. We covered enough for today. And

JoJo (23:49)
Yeah.

Angie (23:50)
if you want me to pare down your supplement list, go to boulderholisticvet.com and you can book a consultation with me. There's a button that says book a consultation. Grab some time on my calendar and we can go through your pet's medical records together. We'll meet on zoom and we can decide.

what would be helpful, and what's probably a waste of time and money.

JoJo (24:16)
And if you're listening, I would love to know what's influenced you. What what campaign did you see that you're

Angie (24:21)
Yes.

JoJo (24:21)
like, man, I feel like I'm a bad pet parent if I don't push click now. Like purchase now.

Angie (24:29)
Yes.

JoJo (24:29)
What are they? Who's winning at that game?

Angie (24:32)
I want to know too what podcast bro with a microphone convinced you to get on a subscription for their multivitamin. That's what I want to know. Exactly. Exactly.

JoJo (24:41)
Yeah. I'm gonna make you jacked. Okay, until next time.

Angie (24:49)
Okay. See you later.