Dr. Angie Krause (00:00)
Welcome back to Tails of Truth where we tell the truth about veterinary medicine. I'm Dr. Angie and this is my cohost and veterinary nurse extraordinaire JoJo And today we are talking about bugs, specifically bugs.

JoJo (00:13)
my least favorite topic.

When we talk about bugs, I feel like I have bugs. And then I picture every bug that's ever existed in practice.

Dr. Angie Krause (00:20)
I know.

like fleas and ticks and round worms. ⁓ lice. my gosh, tape worms.

JoJo (00:26)
and lice tapeworms. my gosh. In microbiology.

I remember my professor brought a tapeworm in and it was his own tapeworm. I know it was like, I'm so gross. Ugh, gross. yeah. He went somewhere. I don't remember where, but he traveled. Disgusting. Yeah. Let me show you. It was like still in like one long piece. Yeah.

Dr. Angie Krause (00:37)
That's crossing the line. Why did he have a tapeworm? Where did he go? Yeah. And then he was like, let me extract this.

JoJo (00:56)
But you know, he's in microbiology, he's weird.

Dr. Angie Krause (00:58)
20 years ago when I first started practicing in the front range, I hardly ever saw any bugs, ever. And now I see more because global warming, yes. And there's just more, it's sad.

JoJo (01:07)
Already this year too.

Yeah, it's May

1st and the ticks are here.

Dr. Angie Krause (01:16)
Yes. Ticks are here. I had a in my house. I don't even have a dog. How? I have dead grass in my front yard. How did it? Yeah.

JoJo (01:21)
Ew.

Ew, ⁓

Total dead grass, I know. I

live in an HOA and they're gonna make us have grass still somehow. In a drought.

Dr. Angie Krause (01:34)
What? The city is

not going to let you water your grass? No, that's so wrong to keep grass alive.

JoJo (01:38)
two days a week, but you can still hand water it.

So wrong, I want to rebel so bad

and I know that's not what this episode is about, but there's Please, I was trying to think of all of them. We don't have hookworms here, do we?

Dr. Angie Krause (01:49)
There's bugs because so many things.

⁓ I mean, we have hook worms here that probably came from Texas from the rescues.

JoJo (02:00)
Okay, well I also

remember them in LA because you can get them in the beaches.

Dr. Angie Krause (02:04)
for sure. Hookworms do kind of gross me out.

JoJo (02:07)
Yeah, and now we have the new world screw worm, which is so hard to say new world screw worm. We don't have it yet, right? But border states, which it's not really a worm. It's fly.

Dr. Angie Krause (02:15)
In the US, but not in Colorado. Yeah. Border, yeah.

big problem. It's a scary problem.

JoJo (02:27)
You want to hear this

is why I hate bugs because I've been reading about that bug which maybe people are because I think the news is talking about it and all that kind of stuff, but it's a fly that lays its larva in your wounds including humans and they screw like a screw they burrow like a screw the larva does that's why it's called a screw worm and it just Basically eat your flesh

Dr. Angie Krause (02:54)
big problem for cattle.

JoJo (02:55)
So

you what they did though? It's cool. Science is cool. So they release hundreds of millions of sterile male flies every week because the females only mate once. So they mate with all these sterile males, which then means they aren't getting these live larvae. So it's so interesting to me. I don't know how they're making the male sterile.

Dr. Angie Krause (03:15)
Yes.

No, I don't either. Probably some genetic mutation or something and then they breed them. But this is why we should fund science. Just gonna say that.

JoJo (03:28)
sure

and the USDA.

Dr. Angie Krause (03:32)
Yeah, we need all of those things, so.

JoJo (03:34)
because

these are coming over in farm animals. And we still need meat from our southern neighbors. So we've got to do something about it. Yeah. Ew. Just ew. I just, I hate bugs. I hate it so much.

Dr. Angie Krause (03:37)
Yes.

Yes.

Ew.

Like you.

JoJo (03:51)
And so this

is the number one reason people visit our website according to our Google Analytics is to find out how to holistically prevent parasites. And we need to update that blog because it's changed a lot in the years because bugs, think bugs are hardier. Is that a lie I'm telling myself? Not based in science?

Dr. Angie Krause (03:59)
really?

How's it though?

Well, I think it depends on where you are.

Like, on the coast, yes. Like, preventing ticks on the coast, like, I just do the pharmaceuticals. I'd the newest generation. Well, I guess I think more of the East. I don't know. I should ask Rachel, a veterinarian that practices in Oregon, what she thinks about doing the natural stuff out there.

JoJo (04:26)
They both coasts. East and West. More East.

Dr. Angie Krause (04:41)
I don't, well, actually she and I, this was years ago, had a conversation about fleas and she's like, you can't do the natural stuff out here. It's too moist all the time, all year round. So.

JoJo (04:49)
That's true, too moist.

Mm-hmm.

That's one of the places I remember seeing fleas all the time.

Dr. Angie Krause (04:57)
yeah, I see like one flea a year. Last year of practice, I saw one flea. Like a flea on a cat.

JoJo (05:03)
Yeah.

How

is that that there has to be more fleas than the one flea just found the one flea Yeah

Dr. Angie Krause (05:12)
Well, I just found that one flea. wasn't like the cat was

like crawling with fleas. just, found a flea. We treated the cat and then that was just uneventful.

JoJo (05:23)
But the whole cycle of it, you know, because then you vacuum it up, but you're really not. I don't know, like, but how do you get rid of it? ⁓

Dr. Angie Krause (05:29)
Right? Yeah.

It's vacuuming and honestly, like if you treat the host, you're doing a lot of it. And it's Colorado, we're high desert. It's really hard for those buggies to live. So like we just don't have the right conditions for fleas to set up infestations in people's yards.

JoJo (05:37)
Yeah.

Alright, this is one of those situations where there's not a one size fits all answer. Because it's dependent on where you live. It's dependent on your pet's lifestyle. It's dependent on your lifestyle.

Dr. Angie Krause (05:56)
Yes.

Yeah. Well, we used to have people call in or, write to us or whatever format we've been doing. And, they would be like, Oh, I live in Florida. How can I prevent fleas and ticks and worms and everything naturally? And I was like, uh, I don't know because I don't even have to prevent them very much here. And so I, I kind of felt like I didn't have the information. I actually spent some time interviewing

holistic vets on the coast to see like what's working and what they're doing. And I mean, I would say about half of them were like, we, we do the pharmaceutical stuff. We don't do it naturally or, Hey, we can do this part naturally, or we're really into flea busters, but the rest you can't. So it was helpful for them because I felt like such a fraud because I could be like, yeah, use this essential oil. I've never had to

prevent fleas on any real level, but try this. You know, like I can't endorse any of this that I don't actually do.

JoJo (06:57)
Well, and there is so much marketed out there that I wonder, okay, there's a Wondercide which people really like Wondercide.

Dr. Angie Krause (07:04)
I use Wondercide now. So now we have ticks. We did not used to have so many ticks. It was just like up in the foothills, just in March, April, but now we just have ticks even in the burbs, like a little bit away from the mountains. And people are using Wondercide, but even some of my most holistic alternative clients are really switching to NexGard

JoJo (07:07)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Angie Krause (07:31)
because all it takes is to have exactly. Yeah, that was you, but you did that like years ago. all it takes is to have that tick crawling in bed with you a few times or lice, but it, and then you're like, okay, wonder cide is great. And I, I use it and recommend it, especially if it's not that bad or if your dog doesn't get that many ticks, I feel like it's very like neighborhood and dog dependent.

JoJo (07:41)
or life's in bed with you.

Dr. Angie Krause (07:58)
And so I'm a huge fan of the wonder cide but some people are like, no, I had a woman pick a tick out of her bang in the exam room. And she was like, give me the Nex Gard right now. And I was like, Yes.

JoJo (08:09)
That's what happens once it happens to you. Your perspective changes and I have, I have seen that in our practice with people who are

very, very holistic leaning, like don't touch many drugs at all. change their tune mean, because it is a process too. If you've had kids or if you ever had a head lice, it's like that. There's just like this intense.

Dr. Angie Krause (08:21)
Yes.

Yes.

JoJo (08:35)
process to get it out of the house and everybody's stuff and And ticks do things for people too like we're just gonna start seeing people diseases here

Dr. Angie Krause (08:41)
Yes, get it out.

I know I was telling, I had a naturopathic doctor sitting in my exam room and I was like, we don't have Lymes here yet. And she's like, ⁓ yes we do. And I don't know if she's seen people that have traveled or if we really do. I haven't appreciated it in dogs.

JoJo (09:01)
Right.

Mmm.

Dr. Angie Krause (09:06)
I don't know how to make sense of that because people travel more than the dogs do and we live longer so we can like be harboring Lymes. people get completely devastated by Lyme's disease. Like it's a huge problem. But as of now, I haven't appreciated it in my, my dog or cat population. So.

JoJo (09:17)
Mm-hmm.

Well, and I've heard the tick problem on the East Coast, because one of my kids called and said, I keep hearing there's this really big tick problem. Do I need to be worried? I thought I'd call the expert, which I thought it was really funny that he thinks I'm the expert on ticks And I'm just like, well, I think that's mostly an East Coast problem. Like, people are walking outside, and then they're just covered in baby tics. yeah.

Dr. Angie Krause (09:37)
Yeah.

Yeah, they have to lint roll them off. Lint roll.

And now...

JoJo (09:54)
I've had

a few ticks in my life. you know, and then they find the warm places. That's where you're to find them. Like in your groin and behind your ears. Like my boys did a trip down the boundary waters and they're like, yeah, like just ticks. You have ticks in the worst places. Just all the time. Every night you have to do tick checks.

Dr. Angie Krause (10:08)
⁓ no.

That's gross. can't do it. But now people are now becoming the alpha gal problem where people are becoming anaphylactic to red meat and dairy because they're I think it's like especially maybe in like Kentucky or Tennessee in that area. They're getting exposed to I think is it the Lone Star tick and it's carrying. Yeah. Which we don't have here. Thank goodness. Yet. ⁓

JoJo (10:35)
the long star tick Yeah.

Yeah, so

see, this is one of those episodes that people are gonna listen to. And we're gonna have all those things.

Dr. Angie Krause (10:45)
And it'll be like, ugh,

yeah, we have all those things. Yeah, hopefully it's not for like decades. Hopefully like I'm almost dead. I don't want to be associated or worry about this. And I would, I saw that there was a climbing trip like in that area, Tennessee, Kentucky, that I could go on. was like, I was not gonna go because of the ticks.

JoJo (11:05)
I think like that too Angie, like I think, we don't want to go there then because of either mosquitoes or, I just don't, I don't want to be around bugs. I'm so privileged living in Colorado. If you need a reason to move to Colorado, the lack of bugs is a really good reason.

Dr. Angie Krause (11:14)
Yeah.

No.

It's a really good reason. When I lived in Austin, Texas, the cockroaches would fly. Tap out. That's...

JoJo (11:32)
The palo verde

beetles they have there. I mean, and I don't mind a bug that's not going to land on me It's the ones that want to feed on me That it's just like Adam will let a mosquito land on him and it's fascinating to watch it just fill up like you can actually Yeah He's a weirdo

Dr. Angie Krause (11:39)
They will land on you.

Okay, let's bite him.

Okay. What, is he not afraid of like West Nile?

JoJo (11:56)
But I mean, it's just not a regular process, but like I remember when the boys were

showing up, like growing up, he's like, this is what happens. So he would just let them watch and you can just watch if abdomen fill up. And I'm like, ew. Like we went to Yellowstone once in June, I will never again. We couldn't even be around the fire without just so many mosquitoes. Okay, so let's just break it down. Cause we, think we've lost our way a little bit. It's probably my fault. ⁓

Dr. Angie Krause (12:05)
⁓

That's gross, I can't do it.

Because the mosquitoes. ⁓

⁓

JoJo (12:27)
So mosquitoes are causing, causing is not the right word, but the correlation is mosquitoes heartworm.

Dr. Angie Krause (12:34)
Yeah, they transmit heartworm disease. So if you don't have mosquitoes, you can't get heartworm disease because that's one thing people want to know about is like, how does my dog get heartworm disease? And I'm always shocked how many people in my exam room don't know that heartworm disease is from mosquitoes. Like, we dropped the ball. And so if there are no mosquitoes, it's the dead of winter. You can prevent heartworm disease if you want, but you don't have to. You don't have to. You're not a bad person.

JoJo (12:36)
Thank you.

Yeah.

Right. And again, that's privilege of where you live.

If you're in Texas, you might have mosquitoes all year round, but it gets really bad. Yeah.

Dr. Angie Krause (13:03)
You have to. You have

to. Like it's non-negotiable. Do that ivermectin. But yeah, that's it. That's it. We can, we can move on to fleas.

JoJo (13:08)
Okay, fleas, go, keep going. Fleas,

I mean fleas come from a number of places, but then the fleas attribute to tapeworms. Yeah.

Dr. Angie Krause (13:19)
Correct. So

if you have a little kitty outside that's hunting and eating animals, or maybe your dog catches a squirrel or a bunny, it's a great way to get tapeworms.

JoJo (13:30)
Yeah, hookworms are coming from like, I can only think of them in sandy areas. I think of them in beachy areas. Like they're coming up through feet.

Dr. Angie Krause (13:37)
I just think of them in

Texas. ⁓ Yes, but they can come a lot of different ways. But yes, they're not good and they are transmittable to people. And so that's why I don't see a lot of hooks because we have so many homes in Colorado, we have to like import our dogs and cats from other states, namely Texas. And usually when I see a dog with hookworms, it's because it's either traveled.

Or it just came from Texas. But I don't see a lot of hookworms here. Yeah.

JoJo (14:07)
Okay, that's true. Yeah, that's the thing with the heartworm.

Okay, and then roundworms, where are those coming from? I actually don't know. I don't remember.

Dr. Angie Krause (14:15)
Those

are oral fecal. And so I see some round worms, but I don't see a ton of them here. And like round worms and tape worms, like it's not that we want to keep our dogs with and cats with these infections, but they're not like the worst thing ever. It's not like a heartworm.

JoJo (14:32)
Well, you're

going to see the tapeworms. You're going to know if your pet has tapeworms, most likely. It looks like little rice in their stool. That moves.

Dr. Angie Krause (14:37)
because they're going to have little pieces of rice. Yeah, and they're poop.

Or sometimes they come out long and whole and people really freak out.

JoJo (14:46)
Thank you, microbiology teacher. ⁓

Dr. Angie Krause (14:48)
Yes.

Ew.

JoJo (14:51)
What else? What else

is there? So flea... lice?

Dr. Angie Krause (14:56)
⁓ lice.

JoJo (14:58)
mites

Dr. Angie Krause (15:00)
Okay, mites, yeah. So mites come in two different varieties. One that is contagious, and then one that you just already have in your skin, or dogs already have them in their skin. So, but yeah, those happen too. And then lice are awful, and they're the most itchiest thing ever. yes, I've missed some cases of lice. I still remember I missed a case of lice in a great Pyrenees.

JoJo (15:15)
Yeah.

Dr. Angie Krause (15:24)
And I was like still trying to like, I was trying to suppress their itch with apoquel and it was like, lice are so itchy that they're just, it's all the time. Yeah. ⁓

JoJo (15:34)
Yeah. Remember,

what was that one that we found on that you found on a slide?

Dr. Angie Krause (15:39)
A cat.

Yeah. That was, I think that was a lice, if I remember correctly. From a kitty. Yeah. It was a louse. Thank you. That is the singular for lice, because lice is plural.

JoJo (15:42)
That was a mite, wasn't it?

yeah, might have been in louse Yeah, that's right.

That's true. She did find a louse, which was like spectacular because you even got a picture of it. Yeah, that was like a big win. I think we were like all excited at end of the day because that's not easy to do.

Dr. Angie Krause (15:58)
I found a louse.

I did, I wonder where that... I mean, it's somewhere on my camera.

Yeah, because it,

no, and ⁓ it was off of a cat. And anytime I can find a bug and attribute the itch to that, I'm like, good, I can kill this. Food and environmental allergies are a little bit harder, a lot harder. And so.

JoJo (16:21)
Mm-hmm.

Yes.

Okay, and then we have the tick population and everybody knows where those come from.

Dr. Angie Krause (16:31)
Yeah. they transmit, then they transmit other diseases like anaplasma and all kinds of other things. And those show up and in a lot of dogs and they're not symptomatic. And so sometimes dogs can get those and carry them around and, uh, or, clear them, they clear them, but they are not necessarily a problem.

JoJo (16:52)
Okay, did we cover them? We didn't really cover what to do with them. Essential oils are...

popular they're popular and What I find interesting is how many products have tea tree or melaleuca same thing in them and Yet melaleuca can be really toxic and so it must be in really minute amounts that they put it in these products, but I feel like that is Maybe a little deceptive because then people think tea tree oil is safe, and it's not really safe

Dr. Angie Krause (16:58)
Essential oils are popular.

huh.

Yeah, essential oils.

If you dilute it, it can be. Like it's great for oral health. Yeah. I mean, it's good for some things, but you need to really dilute it. And essential oils are always a little risky with cats. I'm not a huge fan of them for cats. Wondercide seems to work pretty well. And when I say work, that's, I think that's the hard part because even for these like NexGuard, like the, the, the actual tick needs to bite your dog still.

JoJo (17:25)
It's gonna be highly diluted, right?

Dr. Angie Krause (17:52)
And so it's, which you should still do it because it does stop the transmission of disease because it bites your dog and then it dies. So it's not attached long enough for your dog to get the disease. And so that's it. That's important. but they, it doesn't mean that you, your dog can't still bring, ticks into the house just because they're on NexGuard. Yeah. So it's like, they can still be vehicles.

JoJo (18:15)
That's true. Yeah, that it, yeah.

Dr. Angie Krause (18:19)
And so I don't, some people will use Nex Guard and the Wonder Side to try to repel. And then if the tit gets past the repellent, then, you know, it dies if it bites your dog.

JoJo (18:29)
Because is

it a neurotoxin? Is that why people feel concerned about using that product? Because the way it works is it paralyzes the tick. Is that correct?

Dr. Angie Krause (18:35)
Yes.

Right. And so I think the reason people feel really concerned about it is because it has a black box warning that it can cause neurologic disease in some dogs. And so if your dog has epilepsy or any preexisting neurologic condition, your veterinarian might not use it. They might use something like Frontline instead.

JoJo (19:01)
Well, and is it Bravecto now that has a one year injection?

Dr. Angie Krause (19:06)
Yes, which of course I am so unwilling to hop on that bandwagon. One, because we have ticks for like two months here. two, because I, I don't like things that I inject that I can't take back. I remember entire years and there are some places and some populations where this is going to be a life-saving treatment. And so I am not dogging it.

JoJo (19:17)
An entire year's worth of protection.

Dr. Angie Krause (19:31)
I in my in in Boulder, Colorado, I'm not hopping on that bandwagon because I don't see the necessity and I'm I'm I want it to be out for years before I would ever use it myself. But I mean, if you are a veterinarian in Connecticut or somewhere in the South where there's like ticks all the time, I could I could understand your excitement about the 12 month Bravecto It's just I don't share it.

I'm not sure exactly.

JoJo (19:57)
Yeah, and you name flea busters, which I actually don't know what that is

Dr. Angie Krause (20:01)
Flea Busters is a whole system where you can put like nematodes in your yard to try to decrease the fleas in your yard and you can use diatomaceous earth on your carpet and like there are collars and there's like a whole system which sounds exhausting. Yeah, you have to have some time resources and some people are like it's not that big of a deal. I'm always surprised at like what people can handle.

JoJo (20:19)
Yeah.

Dr. Angie Krause (20:29)
When I look at that, I'd be like, my gosh, I'm overwhelmed just thinking about it.

JoJo (20:33)
That's why

if you lived in this house, you would probably want to be on that one year Bravecto It's so hard to remember to do something once a month.

Dr. Angie Krause (20:38)
Hahaha, yeah.

Oh my gosh, really is. And people feel so much shame when they're like, I don't know if I gave any of the heart guard you gave me last year. And I'm like, good news. Oh yeah.

JoJo (20:49)
Yeah, happens to me too. And I

am neurotypical and very type A and I can still forget.

Dr. Angie Krause (20:58)
Are you really neurotypical? Is it possible that you and I get along so well?

JoJo (21:00)
I don't know. I

have been questioning that statement.

We can unpack that another time. As I sit here fidgeting with my, and I have definitely have sensory issues. ⁓ thank you. I don't believe I have ADHD though, because I live in a house full of ADHDers and I work with you and I'm like, yeah, I don't have that.

Dr. Angie Krause (21:10)
That's another episode.

Yeah, I know.

Well, you're so creative, but anyways, I don't want to diagnose you

You do not.

Yeah.

No, you don't.

JoJo (21:36)
My job in life is to help ADHD or stay on task. That is one of my roles in this lifetime. But I am the one who keeps detracting us in this episode, so maybe people have a different idea. But I'm gonna bring us back, because another big one is neem oil.

Dr. Angie Krause (21:40)
Yeah.

⁓ yeah, neem oil. I think they use that mostly for lice, if I remember correctly.

JoJo (22:01)
Yeah, I don't know. And that's just like some maybe is I don't know how it works. I think it does something with the exoskeleton.

Dr. Angie Krause (22:06)
I don't either.

Because you put it on plants. I've used it on my plants before, the Neem oil

JoJo (22:14)
Yeah,

and then I have this little part of me that feels bad because I am the person who rescues the spider and tries to move everything out in the world, but I am willing to kill these little beings.

Dr. Angie Krause (22:24)
⁓

the minute you terrorize my pet. It's kind of like with the kids, like, you would do anything.

JoJo (22:30)
No.

I feel the

same way about rattlesnakes. Like, I'm okay if they all die.

Dr. Angie Krause (22:36)
yeah!

Are you? well, yeah, I bet you do. Yeah. I know. I know. Yeah. It's hard when something threatens the well-being of your pet, AKA your child or however you feel, your family member. And if something's terrorizing it, mean, are it, do lice really have a purpose? And someone's going to come at me in the comments though. Someone is.

JoJo (22:42)
We have so many of them. So many. Look.

I don't know. Well,

I actually do. I would love to hear that perspective. What is the purpose of even flies? What is the purpose of a fly?

Dr. Angie Krause (23:09)
Yeah.

JoJo (23:13)
I don't know. Cockroaches, I get.

Dr. Angie Krause (23:13)
Ugh.

What is the purpose of a cockroach?

JoJo (23:18)
Aren't they like waste removers?

Dr. Angie Krause (23:20)
don't

JoJo (23:22)
Yeah, yeah,

because they've outlived like every devastation the world has ever known.

Dr. Angie Krause (23:29)
Oh, they have. Oh, well.

JoJo (23:30)
Yeah, I

might just be making crap up right now. That's what my belief of them is. I feel like fleas have got to be the same. They're so indestructible. So are ticks. Like if you've ever pulled off a tick, which by the way, you can pull off the tick and take that into your vet so they can send it off.

Dr. Angie Krause (23:34)
We need a consult squad.

Yes, you can. Yep, you can do that.

JoJo (23:50)
Yeah, no, I know

what kind of tick it is. OK, did we cover parasites for the most part?

Dr. Angie Krause (23:55)
I mean, we talked a lot about

them, how gross they are, where they come from, and then some of what to do about them, but we do have a course. What do we call it? Is it called like Creepy Crawlers?

JoJo (24:05)
Mm-hmm.

It's

called... I think it's a holistic approach to the creepy crawlers.

Dr. Angie Krause (24:12)
I go through all of the treatments and prevention for these parasites. And we talked about, we talked about like Brevecto and NexGuard versus like Frontline and you know, Wondercide and those sorts of things. And you can get it on our website. If you go to boulderholisticvet.com and you go to learn with us, there's a course tab.

And if you use the code truth tales spelled TALES or TAILS, you can get it for free.

JoJo (24:45)
It's a very focused, class. And let us know, what are you seeing? Where do you live? Whenever you tell us what you're seeing, tell us where you live and what your vets are recommending. And Dr. Angie, we need to update that blog and find what holistic vets across the country are doing now as weather changes.

Dr. Angie Krause (24:47)
Yes, unlike this conversation.

Yes.

Yes.

I know the weather is changing. And if someone could tell us the purpose of fleas, ticks, mosquitoes, how do they serve us? Someone is going to tell us. I know they are. Yes. See you next time. Bye.

JoJo (25:11)
Yeah, right, I'm excited to know. Okay.

Bye.