Dr. Angie Krause (00:00)
Welcome back to Tails of Truth, where we tell the truth about veterinary medicine. I'm Dr. Angie, and this is my coughing co-host and veterinary nurse extraordinaire Jojo. We are both getting over like horrendous illnesses and we're both on antibiotic number two or three. Are you on three? You're on. We've been so sick. So we're not our... Yes, you do.

JoJo (00:16)
Yes.

I'm on three.

I sound like a smoker? Or it could be sexy.

It's so bad.

Dr. Angie Krause (00:29)
Who knows?

So this episode is a little more casual and we just wanted to share with people why people are mad at us this week. Like what we've done to offend. Brush it off, it's really hard. I had one yesterday that like really shook me to my core and I...

JoJo (00:41)
just what gets said about us and how much we have to just brush it off.

Dr. Angie Krause (00:53)
Some of this episode I just want people to understand that veterinarians are people too. Like I'm just a person getting through my day really just trying my best So it's hard it's hard when people are unkind or we face a lot of like unnecessary criticism, but yesterday I I had a client call and say I just want to make sure that the veterinarian I'm seeing is a competent veterinarian and

And they're like, yeah, no, of course. I've actually seen, yeah. And I've already seen this woman. And so I kind of knew maybe she was coming in with a little bit of a chip on her shoulder. I give people a lot of leeway because obviously they're scared. And so when I hear a question like that,

JoJo (01:21)
No we only hire incompetent veterinarians here. Like what?

Dr. Angie Krause (01:43)
my first feeling is empathy of like, this person is really concerned that they're not gonna get their animal help. And so it's understandable. So I really try to give grace. So I start the appointment, things are going really well. I'm trying to address her problems and she wanted a particular therapy. And I was like, I don't think we should do that therapy. I think this is more medically warranted. And she just lost it on me.

And it was so, it was so hard for me because I was like, just on this receiving end, she's like, you're a terrible veterinarian. Why won't you give me what I want? Why won't, like, I mean, it was, and I left the room. was like, Hey, I'm going to give you a moment to calm down. And then I'm going to come back. And she's like, you're overreacting, whatever. anyway, so I, I left the room and then I came back and I was like, Hey, can we?

Can we start over? we try this again? And I said, here are the treatments that I think your dog needs. she just, she's like, I don't know. And it was, I was prescribing like really common things for a really common condition. And she just was like, I've never had that prescribed before. No one would ever do that. And it was really hard. And then she opened.

the door and she like kind of announced the whole lobby. She's like, you are a terrible veterinarian and I want to talk to your boss. And it was so like, it threw me off like for the rest of the day into. Yeah. And I was like, I was like, I don't understand what's happening here. You and I've seen each other twice. do like, you know, she's like, I don't ever want to see you again.

JoJo (03:17)
Of course it threw you off.

Dr. Angie Krause (03:27)
Like I have to admit as far as a veterinarian, my style is more towards like, wanna please people. I want people to feel good about their treatment plan. I'll go to great lengths. But I just, there was like no pleasing her and it was rough and it made me feel really bad. It was a really rough day. Like I definitely went to my office and cried. Even though like in my heart of hearts,

What I was doing was so mainstream and some like there was an antibiotic that this dog had been prescribed over and over again. I was like, I'm really concerned that we're going to get resistance. I think we should try this other one. It's similar. And I'm because I, I have personally had to euthanize animals because they started growing resistant bacteria that we couldn't fix.

And so like I am really concerned about that. And she's like, I just want you to give me what I want. I like, I just can't do that. And I finally just didn't, couldn't prescribe her anything because she didn't start threatening me. It was crazy. Yes. So I got, I got someone was.

JoJo (04:33)
Wow. ⁓ What happens?

Like how do you continue a relationship or does the clinic let her go? Like what do do? Because that you can't have that.

Dr. Angie Krause (04:44)
Yeah. Or can she let us go?

No, I know you can't have that. Yeah, it was really tough. It was really tough. And so I don't, I don't know if she's going to continue to be client. mean, obviously she's never going to see me again, which I mean in 20 years of, I'm going to get the Google review. Yes. I'm going to get the Google review. And I, I'm not sure that I've ever had a bad Google review.

JoJo (04:58)
Ugh. And you'll probably get the Google review. These are the things that come through. Yeah.

Dr. Angie Krause (05:11)
but this might be the first. And so I'm just gonna have to like take it in stride.

JoJo (05:16)
I'm sorry that happened. That is, I feel like no story is going to even come to that. Like that is so bad. Usually that happens to the techs or the vet assistants or the front staff. And then when the veterinarian walks in, you guys get a whole different client than what we just had because you have, they give more respect to you. So for you to have that,

Dr. Angie Krause (05:22)
I know, everything else we say.

Yeah.

Yes.

Yes.

Yes.

Yeah.

JoJo (05:44)
Makes

me wonder how the rest of the staff got treated.

Dr. Angie Krause (05:47)
Probably not good. Yeah, probably not good at all. So yeah, it was tough. But we also get people kind of being mean girls on like YouTube. I know. ⁓ Yeah, people are mean to us.

JoJo (05:48)
Yeah.

Yeah, okay YouTube Apparently

We giggle too much and are so inappropriate that we need empathy training and that honestly the first time It was said made me giggle ⁓

Dr. Angie Krause (06:19)
No, you can't giggle because you're gonna cough.

Don't edit it out. It's the reality of today.

JoJo (06:28)
I'm so sorry

if you're listening to this because when people cough in my home it drives me crazy Yeah, okay, but anyhow we could go too much and then that comment came through like multiple times, so I don't know if people Piggyback on her comment and use the same kind of language or if she just showed up as mean girl in different ⁓ handles

Dr. Angie Krause (06:35)
Does it really? And now.

Wasn't

it only twice or was it more than two?

JoJo (06:55)
I don't know if it's two or

three times, but it's okay. I have something to say about this. This podcast is meant to be light, even on heavy topics, because that is how I get through my day. It does not mean if we laugh or are inappropriate with our laughing, apparently that we don't care about your animal, that we don't think something is serious. I think we laugh at appropriate times.

And sometimes I giggle when I'm uncomfortable. That's probably true. But I'm going to go with this word giggle because that was what I found so offensive. Because to me, it's a demeaning word. You need to quit giggling reduces me to a little girl rather than a full grown woman. And I think that was the intent. And that's where I feel upset by that comment. Not that it irritated her or

Dr. Angie Krause (07:26)
Mm-hmm.

Yes.

Yes.

JoJo (07:45)
The empathy thing... Girl, I have severe empathy problems, like in terms of too much of it. That is not a problem over here. So...

Dr. Angie Krause (07:48)
⁓

girl. Yeah, and that's the thing of like they

They don't know us. When people say that, I'm like, oh, you don't know

the levels of empathy we have that are actually harmful to us. Like, what? Yeah.

JoJo (08:06)
Yeah, it's not good. It's,

we absorb too much. And that's why this podcast is a healing place for us to just say the things, laugh about some of it and it's meant to be fun. This content is meant to be conversational as though you are sitting in the room with us. That's what I want for this podcast. So even if the topic is very scientific in nature, that was the other thing is just

Dr. Angie Krause (08:11)
Yes.

Yes.

JoJo (08:31)
that we don't get academic enough. The point of this podcast is not, you do not want us to do that.

Dr. Angie Krause (08:36)
No, it would be so boring. Yes. Yeah.

JoJo (08:37)
Or if you do, need to find another podcast. That's just the truth because we can do that.

But that's not how we, Dr. Angie and I like to be a bridge between what you know and what we know. Like it should be easy and light.

Dr. Angie Krause (08:49)
We, first of all,

we're conversational. We're approachable. Like we're conversational and we're approachable and that's how we show up. We do know the science behind things. We can talk about that, but at the end of the day, that's really not what this podcast is about.

JoJo (08:52)
I don't hear you Okay.

No, we want you to be able to turn us on and laugh with us. I laughed in the own episode about my own dog's passing. You know, I said, hey, don't greet the woman because we're about to kill you. Like, I said that, which could sound really insensitive, I guess. But it's my way of coping.

Dr. Angie Krause (09:12)
Yes.

Yeah.

I don't, mean,

it's also real and you might not have the same sense of humor. We're in veterinary medicine. The sense of humor is dark and dry. It's dark because we have to, if you just knew, if we could speak to the people that get irritated by our giggling or our joy, if you could understand what we've seen throughout a day of veterinary medicine, then.

JoJo (09:37)
It's dark. Yeah.

Dr. Angie Krause (09:52)
you would understand why we have the humor that we have. But in that podcast, we were talking about kidney disease in cats and we were giggling at ourselves for forgetting whatever or like, yeah, so it's we were never giggling.

JoJo (10:04)
Yeah.

But it is impactful

when people leave those comments, which go ahead, leave those comments. It's okay. We want the comments. It did make me evaluate for a moment. Am I too, I don't like the word giggly. I really hate that that word got used, because that's the word that stuck for me. And maybe that's just my own. I don't know what that's about. Do you get the same hit from that word?

Dr. Angie Krause (10:21)
Yeah.

sure

yeah yeah I don't I mean I don't I don't that didn't affect me as much because I I responded yeah

JoJo (10:36)
Yeah, that's why you had to respond. like,

I got like keyboard angry.

Dr. Angie Krause (10:43)
Yeah, I appreciate who I am and I appreciate my humor and I like how I interact with people and if it's not for you, it's okay. But you know what? I will appreciate her comment because it does help us reach more people. So I guess if you do, just try not to be too mean, girl.

JoJo (11:04)
short.

Yeah, it was Mean Girl because

it was multiple times. have to assume it was the same person because the language was kind of same and suggesting that we need empathy training. Okay. But anyhow, that happened, which let's go back to reviews. Okay, because if you're going to get a Google review, it reminds me, we just turn on reviews for our products. And I am finding this to be a really interesting space.

Dr. Angie Krause (11:14)
Yeah.

All right.

⁓ yeah.

Yes, we did.

Yes. Yes.

JoJo (11:34)
Because people, and I'm guilty

of this, I don't go leave positive reviews. I leave negative reviews, right? When I'm unhappy, yeah, ⁓ I do that. So I'm definitely trying to leave more positive reviews. So supplements take a minute to work, or they may not work. Let me tell you, if you buy supplements from us, you're going to get A++ service, I promise. Because I'm providing it, so I know what I'm giving.

Dr. Angie Krause (11:41)
you do?

Yes.

JoJo (11:57)
You are welcome to email us with questions. We have generous refund policies. We know some cats are gonna be super choosy and not every supplement's gonna work for every pet. We know this. When you leave a one-star review because you haven't started the product yet or you don't know if your cat's gonna like it or you haven't reached out to us with a question, that is incredibly damaging to small business.

Dr. Angie Krause (12:22)
Yes. Yes.

JoJo (12:24)
So

I'm trying to figure out how to change that because we're here for it. I would rather you contact us and we refund your money than you leave a one star review for something you have not opened. Or that you watched a course that you got for free from this podcast and then you leave a one star review because it was a great course, great content, but not easy to contact us with questions.

Dr. Angie Krause (12:37)
Yeah.

Wait, how is it not easy? You can text us, call us.

JoJo (12:51)
I mean, like, just a minute, you just got it for free.

There's multiple ways to reach us and you leave a one star review even though you like the content like you guys that's damaging.

Dr. Angie Krause (13:03)
Yes, it is. And like, we're small. It's just JoJo and Angie. And so...

JoJo (13:10)
That is it

for all the things that happen in this business.

Dr. Angie Krause (13:13)
for everything. And so when you leave that comment or like that review, it comes directly to our email. We see it and it's hard. And like we don't ever want to give one star service. And so if you need help, reach out instead of leaving us a crummy review. Cause even though we get a lot of great reviews, but it's always that squeaky wheel that gets the grease, right? So that one star review is what sticks in our head when we're going to bed that night.

JoJo (13:41)
Well, it is that and we just have turned them on. So every review right now is heavily weighted on those stars. Right. And so I don't know, it's just it may, it's this challenge for me, it is really discouraging because I know how hard we're working. And I know how hard we will work to make it good for your experience. So that was my, my complaint on that. have one more, but what else you got in your bank?

Dr. Angie Krause (13:47)
Yes.

Well, I guess what I want to say to close out that particular point is feel free to leave me comments or leave us comments.

on any social or whatever that that or email us if you're like I hated everything you just did email us because sometimes people do that too and then we want to we want to address that but when you leave poor reviews on our products it really does hurt our ability to do business and also what I've learned about myself is that when people leave us bad reviews on our podcast it hurts my feelings

JoJo (14:39)
⁓ does it?

Dr. Angie Krause (14:40)
It does like when they leave us a one-star like I think the same person that thought we were too giggly left us a one-star review My feelings and so yeah

JoJo (14:48)
Yeah, we can't see who leaves them. feel free

to, I mean, leave your reviews. We will respond to anything we can or able to respond to. And there are so many avenues. You can text us, call us, email us, socials, TikTok, Instagram, Facebook, YouTube, Spotify. I might be slow to get to some of them, but.

Dr. Angie Krause (14:57)
Yeah, that hurt my feelings.

Yes.

Yes.

Ha ha ha.

JoJo (15:13)
I

will respond if it's in my inbox or if it's in the text like you will get a response even sometimes when I shouldn't be working because I see those things come through and I know an answer matters. So okay. My last story is I am so exhausted by this story of we don't care about animals and we only want the money.

Dr. Angie Krause (15:22)
this.

Yes. Okay, what's your last story before we close it up?

JoJo (15:41)
and that we're greedy and how and this week was particularly heavy with that because I understand okay let's start with the empathy piece financially people are struggling a thousand percent the economy is wackadoo like who knows what's up and what's down and people are losing their jobs and and yet we still have these animals that we care for and I know that your animal matters more than anything else and you will

Dr. Angie Krause (15:43)
you

Yes.

Yes.

JoJo (16:06)
do anything and that you are out there advocating and I have so much respect for that. And I will engage and I will engage and I will work with you to find any possible way. So if you are booking a consultation with Dr. Angie and I think I can do a consultation in 30 minutes and I don't need 45 minutes, we will adjust that price. If you do a 45 minute and you only use 20 minutes of Dr. Angie's time, we reimburse you. Like we were really, I'm telling you that we are really thinking about your

Dr. Angie Krause (16:10)
Yes.

Yeah.

JoJo (16:35)
your pocketbook as much as we can and stay in business. And we're thinking about your animal and how can we serve. Dr. Angie has, I have sent her consultations where I'm like, don't know if we need a full consultation. She's like, tell them that they're better suited to go get this product or to go see this person. And I don't want to take their money just to tell them that. So there's a lot of integrity in what we do, I think is what I'm saying.

Dr. Angie Krause (16:38)
Yes.

JoJo (16:58)
And so when I engage for more than an hour of trying to figure out how we can make something work when somebody is not getting paid till next month and they can't pay for a service, but it's so clear that their pet needs service this week. Like it's a quality of life end of life situation. I'm working to figure that out. If those funds are tied up in something like a GoFundMe or waggle or care credit and all those things, it's really difficult for us to get paid.

Dr. Angie Krause (17:12)
Mm-hmm.

Right.

JoJo (17:26)
And this week I went out of my way to make sure that we could still do this because I wanted this cat to get care. And when the person wouldn't do what they needed to do on their end to release those funds, I said, it might be better suited since your funds are limited for you to actually have an in-person exam. It seems your cat really needs medical intervention. And if the funds are so limited, use the funds toward that. That felt empathetic, even though I had already invested an hour of time that cost you money.

Dr. Angie Krause (17:44)
Yeah.

Yes.

Right. Yeah.

JoJo (17:52)
And the response was so short and so I'm going to try to keep it high level. ⁓

Dr. Angie Krause (17:58)
Mm-hmm.

JoJo (18:00)
But basically it was you only care about money and I will just find somebody who actually cares about animals. And I'm like, you've got to be kidding me. I have spent so much time and energy trying to find a way. I'm carrying more of it than you are, not you, but the person. And now when you don't get your way.

Dr. Angie Krause (18:15)
Right. Yeah.

JoJo (18:19)
And that's going to be the review or the comment. And I probably got 30 email messages of evidence otherwise.

Dr. Angie Krause (18:22)
I know.

JoJo (18:26)
And so I get those things just defeat me. I feel defeated this week because it's been like three of those.

Dr. Angie Krause (18:31)
Yeah, it's been a rough week. Yeah. It's so hard.

JoJo (18:33)
Mm-hmm.

Because I have empathy,

I don't feel like I need to defend the fact that I have empathy. And I don't feel like I need to defend the fact that I care about your pet. And I feel like I don't want to work for free or negative however much money that just cost you this week. For me, it's like it felt like a sales job.

Dr. Angie Krause (18:38)
Yeah.

Right. Yeah.

JoJo (18:53)
And that I'm trying to win your business in any way that I can and that just doesn't feel good

Dr. Angie Krause (19:00)
No, I think people, if when you're interacting with a veterinary team or if there's a policy or some financial policy that you don't understand, it's because we've provided services that we never got paid for. You know, we can't accept payment later because we often don't get that payment and then we...

can't stay in business. So I can't continue to help dogs and cats if we can't stay in business. And so I think it's...

JoJo (19:30)
Right. And this whole week kind

of felt like that. It just felt like insurance companies not getting what they needed and needing things to be so precise in the language. I was like, I spent so much of my week trying to make us money, losing us money.

Dr. Angie Krause (19:40)
No.

Yes. Yes. Yeah. Every time you interact with us and you know, there's nothing, it's not that we're, are losing revenue to try to help you. And of course that is part of it all. Right. And like the customer service part, but yeah, it's, it's rough. It's rough on our end. So if you could.

JoJo (20:01)
And most people are

super grateful. I just want to name that most people are super grateful. This week was just heavy in the and I think it's because people are feeling the financial crunch. And so I think it's going to get worse from here. And I'm just trying to thicken my skin a little bit. Maybe the conversations are not gonna be I don't know. I just want to keep the service that we give but at the same time, you get enough people who suck it out of you.

Dr. Angie Krause (20:10)
Yes.

Yes.

JoJo (20:26)
it becomes a different service we offer because we can't be in the red all the time.

Dr. Angie Krause (20:30)
The squeaky wheel always gets the grease. And so that's why this episode is so good because yesterday, it's good for us to vent this out. And this is part of our podcast is like, we're just recording conversations that we would already have. But I saw one client that was so unkind to me and I probably saw 16 that were extremely kind.

And the one we're talking about today was the one that was unkind. saw clients that I've seen for years. I saw clients that were super appreciative of my help. I saw clients where we got to talk about their weekend plans. I had all these great experiences, but what I was left with at the end of the day was feeling bad about that one. And that's the same for you because I'm sure you had, yes, like,

JoJo (21:15)
Yeah, so many great interactions. So many

wins, including five star reviews.

Dr. Angie Krause (21:21)
including five star reviews. And so we can vent it out. Be nice to your veterinarian. Be nice to your veterinary staff. We're, trying to help. Yeah.

JoJo (21:29)
Yes, we

are and we care about your animal and we care about you. Facts. Full stop.

Dr. Angie Krause (21:35)
And we care about you so much that we're going to give you a course we've recorded for free. If you go to boulderholisticvet.com and you go to learn, is it learn with us? Learn, learn more. my gosh, I never know. Learn more. And then you can see our course selection.

JoJo (21:47)
Let's learn more.

I'm in it every day, that's why I know.

Dr. Angie Krause (21:57)
and you can get any one of those for free when you use Truth Tales spelled T-A-L-E-S or T-A-I-L-S. You get to pick however you wanna spell Tales and you can get a course for free. And we'd love to hear from you. Please don't leave me a one star review on the podcast. Just send me a, you can leave a nasty comment, but just the one star. I can't handle it this week. My heart can't do it.

JoJo (22:23)
And we don't know what week you're listening to this, but any week. Yeah. Okay. Be kind.

Dr. Angie Krause (22:26)
Just it's any week now, probably. we'll see you next time.