Dr. Angie Krause (00:00)
Welcome back to Tails of Truth where we tell the truth about veterinary medicine. I'm Dr. Angie and this is my co-host and veterinary nurse extraordinaire Jojo. And today we are recording our 57th episode. But shouldn't it be our, shouldn't it be our 52nd?

JoJo (00:16)
which is our one year mark.

Well, it should be, but we launched

five just to launch. Yeah. Yeah. So this is 57. I had to do it too. I had to like pull out the calendar but it's our one year. We've been doing this for a full year. We've been releasing for a year.

Dr. Angie Krause (00:23)
Thanks for helping me with that math.

So the day this comes out,

we've been releasing every Friday for one year. JoJo's been making this happen. Amazing.

JoJo (00:40)
Yeah. Well, it takes two of us. I don't

make content by myself. I think we've grown so much. It's so uncomfortable to go back and watch the first couple.

Dr. Angie Krause (00:46)
but you make it happen.

⁓ gosh, well, because we didn't know how to podcast.

JoJo (00:50)
Not so uncomfortable.

like, we now have lighting or I have lighting or I had a little, you guys, I had a like a $10 mic from Target. It was like this big. So, you know, I had to lean over and do that. progression. Yeah. And, uh, progression. I thought it'd be really fun to talk. Yeah. Sometimes.

Dr. Angie Krause (00:56)
Yeah.

progression. And we had to find our stride of like, how it works.

Yeah.

JoJo (01:17)
Like,

you know, every now and again we have a time where it's just like not so easy because life, you know. Yeah, we are. Sometimes our hair doesn't work right or the mic is just off for the whole time we recorded. I mean, there are things that happen for sure. But I'm so proud of us. Start there.

Dr. Angie Krause (01:24)
because we're just people.

You

Yes.

JoJo (01:41)
And when I go back and look through our content, there's so much good content there. And I feel, I go back to it, this feels like my gift to the world. And that doesn't, I don't want that to be egoic in any way. I just mean, I like that we're making veterinary medicine accessible and that there's information out there that is valid, truthful, safe, and free.

Dr. Angie Krause (01:42)
Me too.

Yes. And sometimes funny.

JoJo (02:06)
I think we're funny sometimes. Sometimes. Yes.

Dr. Angie Krause (02:09)
Sometimes. I know some people are annoyed by our giggles, but

sometimes we are just funny.

JoJo (02:16)
Well, that's life too. I mean, that's how we move through life. This is why we had so much fun practicing together.

Dr. Angie Krause (02:21)
Yes, and we started this podcast because we were having all these great conversations and we wanted a professional project that was kind of for us. And it was a way where we could bring whatever was happening professionally in veterinary medicine to light and where we could process it, where we could share it. We're kind of lifting the curtain of

JoJo (02:32)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Angie Krause (02:48)
what it's like to be a veterinary professional. So it's like, do deliver a lot of great content, but we're also kind of giving you an inside look that a lot of veterinarians probably aren't focusing on.

JoJo (03:00)
Well that and I feel that we are just really hopefully helping you advocate for your pet with your veterinarian. What's acceptable, not acceptable, what your resources can be, what options are available to you, that no question is ridiculous. Yeah, I don't think, maybe. I mean, they come from somewhere. It means we haven't answered something. ⁓

Dr. Angie Krause (03:21)
No question is ridiculous, yeah.

Totally. Yes.

JoJo (03:28)
No, I was kind of thinking about this because when I load the episodes, I can see all the episodes and all the titles and all of the things that we've done. And I wanted to know if you have favorites, because I know I have favorites.

Dr. Angie Krause (03:40)
I do have favorites. My number one favorite, I think was our second episode on shame. And it's where I got to share my shame about having a fat cat. Cause I think about it all the time and that was really nice. Like just to be human and then also to kind of tie in the shame that veterinarians are responsible for causing in the people that hire them in clients. Like we are kind of a...

JoJo (03:46)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Dr. Angie Krause (04:10)
you know, shaming profession.

JoJo (04:11)
We really are. Shame on us. Shame on us. That was a good episode though. It was. That one touched a nerve with people because I think it gave people permission to lean into their own shoulds if they would. like just, you don't have to carry that around and veterinarians should be a safe space for you to talk about what you think you should be doing and aren't being able to do. So.

Dr. Angie Krause (04:13)
Yeah. More shame. Yeah.

Yes. Yeah.

100%.

And I really liked the grief episode after Bodhi died.

JoJo (04:41)
That was a good episode.

have a lot of hate with that one. Yeah. Yeah. Like I noticed I was emotional right now because it's so personal, but also so universal. losing Bodhi still is so impactful in my day to day. But that episode, it felt important.

Dr. Angie Krause (04:48)
You do.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

JoJo (05:05)
It really did, because you gave me so much permission not to record that episode. And I'm like, I need to record this episode. And this is this is a plug for if you're not on our newsletter, you should be on our newsletter, because then I sent a newsletter that I wrote from my living room floor. And it was so impactful to know that I am held in a community of people. There was this just

Dr. Angie Krause (05:31)
Yes.

JoJo (05:32)
I had so much positive feedback or so much reciprocated. This is an experience that people are having.

Dr. Angie Krause (05:39)
Yeah, it's universal. So I really loved that one. And we did an episode about Chonky Cats and how, yeah. This all just centers around Chonky Cats a little bit. And we talked about GLP-1s, we talked about weight loss strategy, and it was good.

JoJo (05:49)
My favorite. That's my all time favorite.

Dr. Angie Krause (06:04)
It was one of my favorites. And anytime we're talking about cats, I love it because they're so underserved. Like it's such a sweet spot for a Boulder holistic vet to shine a little brighter light on cats and they get anywhere else. And so that always makes me happy.

JoJo (06:09)
Yeah.

Cat episodes do so well.

Cat episodes. Cat people, you are showing up. You want to know about your cats. That is clear. So kidney disease. We went into depth two a full episodes about kidney disease and apparently giggled too much. We weren't intending to be insensitive.

Dr. Angie Krause (06:24)
Yeah.

Yes.

And for all the cat people and all, especially the cat ladies, just, this has nothing to do with our episode, but there's a website called Cats and Money and they make the sticker called, Girls Don't Like Boys, Girls Like Cats and Money. I got them and I have one on my desk and I put a magnet on the refrigerator in the practice. And I just feel like if you're a cat lady or just a cat person,

JoJo (06:41)
Yeah.

I've never heard it.

Dr. Angie Krause (07:09)
You should know cats and money cats and money.com. I'm doing a shameless plug for it's amazing. So anyways, you can buy it on a t-shirt and it's just all about cats and money. ⁓ just for our cat community, but back to our episode, what, what were your favorite episodes?

JoJo (07:12)
I have never heard of them. Wonderful.

what it

was the Bodhi episode, like I said, it's a love hate, that that will be something that I have in this vault, like a timestamp of something so important to me that I can go back to. And I do think I love knowing that it had an impact.

Dr. Angie Krause (07:31)
Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah.

JoJo (07:47)
So we've had people wait to listen to that whose dogs were in the same period of life and that end of life period and they wait to listen. And that helps me to know. And from that episode, I'm going to tell you, think I would like to advocate that more clinics get these euth a bags because I, I.

Dr. Angie Krause (08:03)
Yeah.

JoJo (08:05)
I think that's really beautiful what that company's doing. If we're to plug companies, I think it's euthabag.com If you have time, you're like in a hospice space with your pet, please go look them up. What a beautiful way for body care after your pet passes. Yeah.

Dr. Angie Krause (08:10)
Yeah.

Yes.

I had a client show me her bag and her family decorated it and personalized it. And I thought, what a great ritual. It's kind of a missed opportunity. That's a great ritual.

JoJo (08:30)
Yeah.

It is, yeah.

So I wish more clinics would start carrying them, but I know that's not a really functional thing to carry, but there must be a way. And Chonky Cat, hands down, one of my favorite episodes. I think it was just so fun and I just, maybe because it's relatable on the human aspect of, the fat cat space. It's just, everybody knows a fat cat.

Dr. Angie Krause (08:47)
Yes, yes, absolutely.

Yeah.

Yeah, cause most cats are kind of fat. It's true. Like most of them.

JoJo (09:02)
Yeah. Yeah. And so I think

I feel excited that there's some science coming in this space. You know how I feel. I'm such a, I'm such a data nerd. So I'm excited about that. And that was just a fun episode. No shame in that episode.

Dr. Angie Krause (09:17)
Yes.

No shame. And one thing I can say is because that shame episode came out a year ago, I've had a year to sit with my shame about Fritz being fat, but I think allowing myself to feel ashamed about it and settle into it has actually now given me the space to do something about it. And so I've reached out to a company that sells automatic,

JoJo (09:36)
Hmm.

Dr. Angie Krause (09:41)
they're not automatic feeders, but they're microchip feeders. so only one cat, cause I have two cats, only one cat can eat from that bowl. And so now I'm in a space where I feel like, okay, I now can take action. But I think without allowing myself to feel the shame, name it, let it out, own it, I couldn't move through to the place.

where I could actually take action and do something about it. And so that's one thing that this podcast has helped me do is like, oh, okay, I can get through this. I can do something to help Fritz. It took me a year to do it, but it's never too late. And so I'm gonna start trying tools to help Fritz with his portion control until that GLP-1 makes it to the market for cats.

JoJo (10:10)
Mmm.

Right.

Exactly. Yeah. When you shared it, you were in a paralyzed state with it. It like, I just can't. Yeah. So that's exciting. I have some that I have shifted. So the podcast is teaching me, it's kind of shining a light on my own stuff, which is so therapeutic, which is kind of what we were expecting, but also it's reminding me that I can be open to change.

Dr. Angie Krause (10:38)
Yes.

Yeah.

JoJo (10:55)
Right? Like maybe I've had some ideas, maybe we talk about something, maybe somebody presents a different position, because we are really open to that. We know that everything we say is not the rule. know? Okay, so one of the big ones, our insurance episode, which I actually really liked that episode too. Like I've gone back and listened to that because I was afraid of, am I way off? Am I way wrong? Because so many people advocate for insurance and we have one.

Dr. Angie Krause (11:06)
No.

JoJo (11:21)
insurance, think, is it a scam or is it worth it? I'm still of the belief, I'm still highly, highly skeptical. I still think it's a dirty, dirty business. And I put Sage on insurance.

Lemonade. One because they have a behavioral health aspect of it. But I just I'm looking at my dog going, she's about two years away from having some kind of hip or knee issue. Like I'm looking at her watching going, okay, let's try it. I'm going to try it. I can't say something is not good until I actually try it. But I'm still highly, highly skeptical.

Dr. Angie Krause (11:36)
Wait, which one did you get? Yeah, that's who I used to.

Yeah.

Right.

I love that you're doing it. I think it will benefit you and I'm highly superstitious. I wonder if because you got insurance nothing will happen.

JoJo (12:06)
Mm-hmm.

I hope that's the case, but I just started thinking rattlesnakes, all the things. like, I want to see, it feel different to move through emergency spaces? But the insurance field still messy, you guys, still messy. every, every week somebody is like, oh, my insurance upped it $500 a month or something ridiculous. So I'm skeptical, but I'm trying it so that I can actually have a full picture.

Dr. Angie Krause (12:37)
Yeah.

You're like, you're not gonna catch me being positive about insurance.

JoJo (12:44)
Nope,

no. But trying it. ⁓ That was one and then another one. Let me see. Okay, this was just a relaxed one. We did one on dog breeds, which I thought was going to be a terrible episode. A lot of times I think something's not going to land and it does. But you asked me a question in that episode and it's like been on repeat in my head because you asked me.

Dr. Angie Krause (12:50)
And I'm over here, I love it. Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

JoJo (13:13)
What breed do think we should stop breeding? And I just felt like, ⁓ well, I don't like German Shepherds because they scare me. I guess German Shepherds. But I don't really like that answer. So my answer, my real answer is dachshunds. And I love a dachshund, but those poor dogs have so much disc disease And that is an extremely painful disease. So that was my answer. That's my final answer. Yeah, that makes

Dr. Angie Krause (13:23)
Okay.

Okay, you... Yeah.

Yes.

I love it. That makes sense. That's

a good animal welfare answer.

JoJo (13:41)
Yeah,

we can keep breeding German Shepherds. I see their function. just don't ever want to

Dr. Angie Krause (13:47)
on with German Shepherds. You never have to have one. It's so funny because I think we talked about this in the episode is that I'm scared of Chihuahuas and love German Shepherds as patients. And Jojo is the exact opposite. So we were always such the dream team when we would go to houses with Chihuahuas. I'm like, can you please keep me safe? And she's like, I've got this. And I'm like, I've got the German Shepherd. I can read them.

JoJo (13:49)
Exactly.

I love a chihuahua.

Yeah, I can't I just I feel like they're gonna lunge and eat me at any moment. I don't I don't see when the shift happens for them. It's interesting. Okay, so that's one. I'll go to another one. Lepto. We talked about vaccines and dogs. And I have never given my dogs a Lepto vaccine. And when when Bodhi was in emergency and when he was dying, and we didn't know what was happening. I had this terrifying

Dr. Angie Krause (14:14)
Right.

JoJo (14:38)
moment, I think I even texted you or called you and I'm like, what if it's a Lepto? And I could have prevented this. I just, could not, it was that, oh, here's a consequence that I can't live with. And so the alternative to do the Lepto vaccine feels much simpler, even though it's not going to cover all the strains and the risk is still there and Sage's risk is relatively low.

I just can't live with the consequence.

Dr. Angie Krause (15:06)
Yeah, that's so important to understand. You're doing everything you can. Like you might not be able to prevent it 100 % or 99 % like we can with like a rabies or distemper or parvo, but you are going a long way to prevent something catastrophic. And I don't know, you should check out lemonade, but some insurance companies won't cover the expense to treat if you haven't vaccinated. And that's, that's a what.

JoJo (15:11)
Mm-hmm.

That is true.

Dr. Angie Krause (15:35)
Don't you think 15 to $20,000 treatment at this point in time?

JoJo (15:39)
⁓ probably.

just feel like everything is just climbing astronomically at a very steep trajectory.

Dr. Angie Krause (15:44)
Yeah.

Because those dogs need to be hospitalized for days. The dogs that get leptospirosis.

JoJo (15:51)
Yeah, well, and that's, we often don't know,

we'll do a whole lepto episode, I want to do a whole lepto episode, because it's an interesting disease. So that was one that I pivoted. I'm pivoting. Yeah.

Dr. Angie Krause (15:58)
Yeah.

I love it.

So we're, our cats are losing weight. We're getting insurance. We're vaccinating for a Lepto. Yeah.

JoJo (16:05)
Yeah. I thought of another one. Your episode on raw

food. Okay, on raw food. And man, that one gets pushback, right? People don't like raw food.

Dr. Angie Krause (16:17)
Right, yes.

JoJo (16:18)
People in the industry don't like raw food. That's a better way to say it. And you made a comment in there about something like, well, you should be washing your hands after you're feeding your dog any food, like kibble or anything, because those all have recalls. Those all have had contaminants. And I was like, what? Angie she finally got me to wash my hands. I have been so like.

Dr. Angie Krause (16:20)
Correct.

Yeah.

JoJo (16:43)
I washed my hands for Angie out of like, this is the rules of her house. But yeah, that makes me sound disgusting, but yeah.

Dr. Angie Krause (16:49)
my gosh, yes.

No, and like JoJo's a really clean person. But so JoJo was my nurse, starting in 2019 when I had very young kids. And we don't have this rule anymore because it's not a problem, but there was so much sickness in my house. So I was always trying to prevent it from coming in and going out. So the rule at our house is if you came in, had to wash your hands. And JoJo was like, all right, germaphobe. Which is true.

JoJo (17:18)
Well, and then we went into

COVID. So like, it was a thing.

Dr. Angie Krause (17:24)
Yep. We

went into COVID and we would wash our hands at every house. We'd come in and wash our hands. so...

JoJo (17:28)
Yes. Didn't we have a hand

washing station out of the back of the car for a minute? Yeah. Yeah.

Dr. Angie Krause (17:33)
We sure did. We sure did.

yeah, Jojo and I have done like a lot of hand washing in like different contexts. And so now Angie has just added one more space to wash your hands. Yeah.

JoJo (17:44)
every time I feed the dog now doesn't matter what

I'm that that that worked that was it that worked I'm like wait you're right yeah totally okay so I hope we are out there like changing minds for people too like they hear something and they're like yeah that's different than how I thought about it before

Dr. Angie Krause (17:51)
Yeah, you're like, no thanks on the salmonella. Yes.

I hope so.

Right. Maybe you love it, maybe you hate it, but maybe you're thinking about it. More.

JoJo (18:12)
Yeah, those little things

that are like, the seed is planted. So, yeah.

Dr. Angie Krause (18:17)
Mm-hmm. Absolutely. Anything

else? What else should we talk about?

JoJo (18:22)
⁓ and just, are there things that you're excited about coming up?

Dr. Angie Krause (18:25)
Oh yes, all of our guests. So we're going to have an oncologist, one of my favorite oncologists ever. Yes. And we're going to have a really famous cat behavior person. Yes. I'm going to guess I should call her a behaviorist, but she feels like so much more than like she is a behaviorist by training, but.

JoJo (18:26)
Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Yeah, I love oncology.

Cat behavior, yeah.

Hmm.

Dr. Angie Krause (18:50)
She's such an expansive knowledge. think she's not a veterinarian, but I think she has an expansive knowledge of, you know, what affects cats from a medicine perspective. So I'm excited. I'm excited about all the guests. And honestly, I, my favorite time every month or twice a month, however often, like how often we do this is just getting to hang out with you. You're like one of my favorite people to hang out with. And we just.

JoJo (19:12)
Aww, that's good.

Dr. Angie Krause (19:17)
We have the best time.

JoJo (19:19)
Seriously, we do. Yeah, that is true. And I get to edit it all. So then I'm like, I get to be with us all the time. There are weeks when I'm like, Angie, hate us. Angie, love us. I don't know. I actually, I really, is it weird to enjoy listening back? Because I think when I'm here with you right now, I'm just present to this. I'm not thinking about what I'm going to say or what about.

Dr. Angie Krause (19:21)
Yeah.

I know sometimes that's okay.

JoJo (19:47)
what I did say that I shouldn't have said. And you just want to go back and listen. I'm like, oh, there's good gold in there.

Dr. Angie Krause (19:55)
been doing this a long time. We have a lot of experience in a lot of different areas of veterinary medicine, and we're just cool.

JoJo (20:04)
Giggle, giggle, giggle. ⁓ I think that's because we have kids. Doesn't that keep you... I think it keeps us younger.

Dr. Angie Krause (20:06)
We're just, I know. We're just cool people.

Do think that's why?

Well, Maeve always tells me my jeans are the wrong cut, so I don't know if I'm as cool as I think I

JoJo (20:20)
⁓ and I think they're changing

again.

Dr. Angie Krause (20:23)
I know, are skinny jeans coming back in? We don't have to do it again, do we?

JoJo (20:25)
Yes. I just got on board

with these barrel cut jeans. I don't know if we're actually cool, but you know what we are. We're open-minded, empathetic.

Dr. Angie Krause (20:32)
you

Yes.

JoJo (20:42)
entrepreneurial minded. Yeah, to a fault sometimes. You know, not honest enough to swear on this because we're trying to keep our e away.

Dr. Angie Krause (20:45)
honest.

Yeah.

Didn't I drop an F-bomb

JoJo (20:57)
Yeah, I had to edit

that and you doubled down on it. She dropped the F word and then that was a good episode. ⁓ It's so I don't get the E. No crap that your holistic vets say.

Dr. Angie Krause (21:02)
I'm so sorry.

Which one was the hat?

why your vet hasn't called you back.

⁓

I don't think I had cuss in that one, did I?

JoJo (21:20)
Well, our title is like dollar sign H exclamation point.

Dr. Angie Krause (21:23)
⁓

Yes,

T like things that holistic vets say that drive me nuts or crazy. I did I. So what happens when I do swear? Did we, do you just bleep it out and then we get to keep our rating?

JoJo (21:32)
I think we did swear in that episode. Yeah.

I think the ratings are by episode. So that episode, I mean, if you're sensitive to any kind of language, you're probably not gonna listen, because it's in the title.

Dr. Angie Krause (21:46)
Okay.

Right, that's true. That's true.

JoJo (21:54)
But in

our everyday, we're having a pretty potty mouth.

So we do, we are lying to you in terms of how buttoned up our language is on this. That is a false front.

Dr. Angie Krause (22:06)
Right.

That is true. We make more refined word choices when we're...

JoJo (22:14)
Yes,

like I was worried about the episode that it'll probably be out by the time this episode comes out but our butt to gut one, our gut to butt, butt to gut and I'm like, are we even allowed to say butt?

Dr. Angie Krause (22:24)
⁓

We're talking about butt stuff. Yeah.

JoJo (22:29)
Yeah. Calling it butt stuff is definitely gonna get

it in E. ⁓ I don't know. But butt stuff means different things to different folks. ⁓ if you aren't in veterinary medicine, there is nothing that can go. I mean, the humor is so awful. I mean, there's nothing off limits in it.

Dr. Angie Krause (22:37)
Is it really?

I'm probably not cool enough to know.

There is nothing off-limits. It's crude. It's dark. It's dry. Yeah.

JoJo (23:00)
That's so crude. Yeah. That's what keeps us

alive. And by alive, I really mean alive. Yeah. So we're going to keep giggling. We're going to keep laughing. What else? We keep telling the truth.

Dr. Angie Krause (23:08)
Mm-hmm. Absolutely. Absolutely. Well...

Yeah.

Well, and my request to anybody listening is if they could leave us a comment, a five star review, and then tell us, you can't do something nice. Will you tell us how young we look on camera?

JoJo (23:21)
Mm-hmm. Yeah. You can't do that on YouTube, but... no.

I ended up young myself with my sick cough.

Dr. Angie Krause (23:36)
Will you tell us like, ⁓ my gosh, those camera angles are always great for you both. And you look like you're in your thirties at the most.

JoJo (23:37)
Yeah. ⁓

⁓ then I will know that you

are lying about me. Yeah. ⁓ you know what? We'll still be recording this podcast when I turn 50.

Dr. Angie Krause (23:51)
No, I'll believe it. I'll believe it. Just tell me. Just lie to me.

Yes, which is the new 30. That's what they're saying. Yeah. Yeah, but just leave us a five star review. Cause sometimes people are really mean to us and literally every time we get a good review or a good comment, it, it makes our day. It really does. So anything nice you can say, I mean, if you need to leave a nasty comment, that's fine. The algorithm still likes it, but like,

JoJo (24:03)
I feel 30. I feel 30. Yeah.

Yes.

Dr. Angie Krause (24:26)
When you leave us a one-star review and you're mad at us, it really hurts our feelings. And we're sensitive.

JoJo (24:32)
When when they land because we're open-minded

and those sometimes those reviews are like, ⁓ maybe we should look at that Those are the ones that hurt the worst. yeah, maybe we should look at that

Dr. Angie Krause (24:37)
Yes.

You when people are like, you guys giggle too much. I went back and listened to the whole episode and really thought, do I giggle too much? In the end, I don't think I do or we do, we will, anything you tell us, we will take seriously. so, know, awesome.

JoJo (24:44)
Yeah.

Well, I didn't take it seriously

at all when we were told to go get empathy training. I didn't. I was like, ⁓ okay. No, but everything I do else, I do take to heart. I do. Okay. Have fun with us. Yeah.

Dr. Angie Krause (25:00)
you didn't. no. Yeah.

Yeah, yeah. So subscribe, like us, and then tell us what you want us to talk

about. Yes. Laugh with us. Okay. See you next time. Bye.

JoJo (25:15)
Okay. Bye.