Dr. Angie Krause (00:00)
Welcome back to Tails of Truth where we tell the truth about veterinary medicine. I'm Dr. Angie and this is my co-host and veterinary nurse extraordinaire Jojo. And today we are talking about getting purebred dogs, buying purebred dogs or cats and rehoming. So they're kind of...

JoJo (00:14)
cats.

Mm-hmm. I feel like they

go kind of together. They're kind of intermingled Which means we don't know where this episode is going I'm like I've just been thinking about I Don't know why I'm thinking about I'm thinking about dogs maybe because mine passed and I know in the future We'll be looking for another not yet hearts not ready

Dr. Angie Krause (00:22)
I know you do. And so that's why we're doing this together is because Jojo wanted to do it together.

Yeah?

No, it's too soon. It's too soon.

JoJo (00:46)
I don't

know. I'm just going to pull out my soap box. Can I just pull out my soap box and just get on it? Here we go. Step on up. Here I go. I feel one, that this is a super taboo topic. So that's why we have to talk about it here. Re-homing is just, if you want to be blasted or ostracized in, not necessarily in the veterinary industry.

Dr. Angie Krause (00:51)
Let's get on it. I don't know where we're going, but I'm going come with you.

JoJo (01:12)
but in people with pets who like to comment The easiest way to do that is to say you need to rehome your pet. It's like so taboo. And then I think, I'm gonna keep going on the soapbox and then we can break it all down from there. I think as an industry, we've done a very poor job in supporting people who are in positions to need to rehome.

Dr. Angie Krause (01:18)
⁓ my God.

Okay.

JoJo (01:36)
their pet. There is so much shame and so much judgment. And then we find people and pets in really, really dire situations. Yeah, that's where that's where I'm jumping from. ⁓ me too.

Dr. Angie Krause (01:38)
Yeah.

Yeah.

I'm a huge fan of rehoming. So I'll support

you. I've rehomed animals of my own when I realized it wasn't gonna be a fit. And while it was sad, in the end, it was always better for everybody involved. So.

JoJo (01:55)
Bye.

Right, is, there is, you have to be a little selfless. In most situations, most people that are rehoming are not being flippant about their decision. And maybe that's not an accurate statement. My experience is that the people I come across who are rehoming are not being flippant. I'm sure there are people who are, ⁓ I want a puppy and now I don't. it's Easter.

Dr. Angie Krause (02:07)
Yeah.

Yes.

JoJo (02:27)
and I want a rabbit, no I don't. Or I just saw 101 Dalmatians and I want a Dalmatian, ⁓ shoot, bad choice. Like I'm sure that exists. But I'm talking about something different. And I think what started this for me is I was thinking about, not started, I mean it started years ago, because I've also had to rehome a dog that I loved so, so much. But life circumstances changed dramatically and the dog no longer

Dr. Angie Krause (02:34)
Right. talking about. Yeah.

JoJo (02:51)
was safe. And so I think that's kind of where I was thinking about it is we have come across that. And I'm sure you've come across it outside of just our practice I have, where people are keeping dogs. And it's become a really unsafe situation in their home. But they're attached, they're afraid of being shamed, but it's actually dangerous.

at some point.

Dr. Angie Krause (03:15)
Yeah, there are a lot of places where rehoming is appropriate. Like I think of dogs that maybe have some behavior issues that need more attention than they're getting. Some animals need more medical care than their people can give them. And then there are dogs and cats in the house or cats and cats in the house that don't get along.

JoJo (03:17)
Yeah, now what?

Mm-hmm.

Dr. Angie Krause (03:39)
And

so asking these animals to live together or putting them on some kind of rotation of like, okay, this cat's in the bedroom during the day and can come out at night. And then we switch. Like that's so stressful for everyone. And those are ⁓ situations where I think rehoming can be really helpful and important.

JoJo (03:57)
Very much so. mean, we've been in homes where dogs are separated and how stressful is when those dogs, I mean, mistakes happen, right? Someone leaves the door open, the gate's not latched or whatever. And then we have really.

Dr. Angie Krause (04:01)
Yeah.

Yes.

JoJo (04:10)
bad fights and injuries and I just think that's just not a way to be.

Dr. Angie Krause (04:17)
Yeah, or if you have a baby and your dog doesn't like your baby that turns into a toddler, your dog doesn't like kids. I think letting that dog live in home without kids is the most loving thing that you could do for that dog. It's very painful. And anytime we've seen these situations, it's so painful.

JoJo (04:34)
⁓ painful I agree with you it's not by any means an easy decision but I feel like where we have gone astray and where we have gone wrong is good luck putting out something saying I need to rehome my pet for XYZ the judgment is so intense it's so intense I mean so then what happens dogs get abandoned

Dr. Angie Krause (04:49)
Yeah.

JoJo (04:57)
or because you know that's easier in some ways.

Dr. Angie Krause (05:00)
Do you think that people were thinking about rehoming their dogs and then they got shamed and so they abandoned them? Do think that?

JoJo (05:06)
I think that it maybe prevents them from posting in places that could be helpful.

Dr. Angie Krause (05:14)
Mmm.

JoJo (05:15)
So shelters have these, what do they call them? They're drop boxes, nighttime drop boxes. I don't know what they call them. They have a name. Yeah, they do. you can, they're like little, where you put them in a little cage at night. yeah, so there's a way that you can bypass any kind of confrontation or any kind of.

Dr. Angie Krause (05:23)
I didn't know that they had them.

Like, kennel them Yeah.

JoJo (05:39)
connection point of this is what I'm doing. So I think that could become...

commonplace.

Dr. Angie Krause (05:45)
Oh, that's interesting. hadn't thought about that. That would be kind of like the next step if you felt like you couldn't reach out to the community. But I mean, definitely there are a fair number of like surrenders, which I think is actually one way to rehome. Sometimes people find themselves in life circumstances where they can't look for a foster or contact or rescue.

and they do need the shelter to re-home their pet. And it is one way to do it. And if you know that your pet can be re-homed, sometimes it's the most accessible way. Now, some pets just can't be re-homed, and taking them to the shelter is actually probably not the best idea.

JoJo (06:31)
Mm-hmm, because.

Dr. Angie Krause (06:32)
Like I could think of some

other thing. Well, because then they're maybe going to be euthanized at the shelter. And so I would rather them be euthanized with you.

JoJo (06:39)
Bye.

Yeah, that's true. mean, behavioral euthanasias can be validated in certain situations. Yeah, I don't know where to go with this. just noticed that I just, think I've been reading comments and I feel really, really bad for people who are in that situation. And then maybe that comes.

Dr. Angie Krause (06:43)
Yeah.

JoJo (07:01)
My empathy comes from having been in that situation, having witnessed people who are in that situation. And as you said in the beginning, it can tear you apart. And now let's just shame you and judge your situation on top of it. Call you pretty much a kind word, JoJo. ⁓ A bad person. A character judgment.

Dr. Angie Krause (07:10)
Yeah.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Yeah. Yeah, a terrible person.

Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like irresponsible and yeah.

JoJo (07:29)
Not to say

that that doesn't exist. So those who listen are like, well, yeah, well, dah, dah, dah, dah, dah. Well, yeah, I know. I know. I'm not, yeah, I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about something different. For example, we have someone who orders product from us, who orders CBD, and she got a cancer diagnosis. And so she had to rehome her kitty.

Dr. Angie Krause (07:35)
But feel free to leave that comment.

JoJo (07:50)
because she just couldn't care for her kitty anymore. But the way that she did it is that she still provides the supplements and the care that her cat needs. So it was easier for her to re home. So I just feel like there's all these workarounds that could help.

Dr. Angie Krause (08:03)
Yes.

Yeah, let's support those. I'm a huge fan. Yeah.

JoJo (08:06)
Yeah.

Dr. Angie Krause (08:07)
Okay, so how should we work into, speaking of judgy things, we could talk about, maybe this episode is about all the judgments people get around their pets. And one of them, and this is a hill that I will die on, that it's okay to get your dog from a breeder.

JoJo (08:11)
Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Okay, because I kind of have landed in that camp too. I used to be in the camp of, you know, shelter only. Adopt, don't shop. I used to live in that camp, but that's where I think the bridge is from what we were talking about. Because if you can select a breed, cat or dog,

Dr. Angie Krause (08:28)
They're... Yeah. Yeah. ⁓

Adopt don't shop.

Mm-hmm.

JoJo (08:46)
I mean cat breeds, I've been reading a lot about certain cats do fantastically well. Which one is that? Who do you have right now? I thought you showing them off like this braid. Certain cat breeds do really well because they have dog characteristics. So they do really well with kids.

Dr. Angie Krause (08:52)
Mm-hmm. is Fiona. I'm putting her in air jail because she's trying to... yeah, no, she's from the shelter.

JoJo (09:12)
or people with spectrum disorders but there's a whole bunch of mental health spectrums in which these cats do particularly well because of their behaviors, their characteristics, So I think that, or somebody who has allergies, there are certain breeds that you can get that are a little bit more.

Dr. Angie Krause (09:24)
Yeah.

JoJo (09:31)
Hypoallergenic, I don't know if there truly is one that's fully, I don't know.

Dr. Angie Krause (09:35)
I don't know anything about that. I mean, because they say there's no hypoallergenic animal, but then people will say like, I'm allergic to this cat and not to that cat. So as a veterinarian, I just stay out of that debate. I'll just treat your animal whether it has hair, doesn't have hair, is hypoallergenic. I trust that whatever's happening for you works.

JoJo (09:36)
Yeah.

You

Right, so you can select breeds based on certain characteristics, which is why the doodle is so popular. But in my opinion, just get the poodle part of the doodle.

Dr. Angie Krause (10:03)
⁓ was Doodle.

But I agree with you. It's okay to select a breed that's going to work for your lifestyle. Wanting a golden retriever for your family or getting a Labrador because you hike or deciding that you want a Border Collie because you do agility, I think those are excellent reasons to choose a purebred dog.

Now, I think the adopt don't shop came from more of like the puppy mill situation. And I'm definitely not promoting that. Please don't go to the mall and buy a dog. Like if you can walk into this store and buy a dog and it's not like a Petco PetSmart adoption situation, then that's probably not what we're talking about. We're not promoting puppy mills and irresponsible breeding. So that's, that's different.

JoJo (10:51)
Absolutely not. You should be able

to visit the breeders.

situation, site where the breeding is happening. That should be welcome.

Dr. Angie Krause (10:57)
Yes. And yeah.

And not all breeders are great. And honestly, not all breeds should be continued, which we, we, maybe we won't get into that because I'm going to get so much hate for saying that it's okay to, to get a dog from a breeder because people in rescue really find that, that statement offensive, which I

JoJo (11:21)
But I think

we would have less rehomed animals if people are selecting breeds that are fit for their family because we've also been in homes in which shelters did not match well with the person that they adopted the dog out to. I mean, we have seen elderly women with, I don't even remember what kind of breed it was, but it was a herding breed with a lot of energy.

Dr. Angie Krause (11:28)
Yeah.

JoJo (11:45)
And I left that appointment every time going, one of these times she is going to be, a broken hip, falling down the stairs. Like this dog is way too much for her apartment and her age.

Dr. Angie Krause (11:56)
Right. Well, I think you have like the overpopulation problem and I don't think breeders are responsible for that. And so you have, you know, we have a whole infrastructure that has kind of failed us. And I always wonder like, I don't know that we can spay and neuter out of this because wouldn't we have already done that? And I'm going to get so much hate from rescue people and I welcome it. I want to hear your opinions and you can.

JoJo (11:57)
How did that happen?

Dr. Angie Krause (12:21)
You can tell me how wrong I am. but as a veterinarian, I, I really do appreciate when people, intentionally get a breed and like, if they're like, we always have this breed and it works for our lifestyle. Like I think that's really responsible because if you go to, like, let's say you're a 22 year old person, you just maybe got out of college and you're like, want a dog. Maybe you've never had a dog before you go to the shelter and you get some kind of.

nondescript herding breed puppy looking thing from the reservation. And you don't know what's in that dog. You don't know the history of that dog. And then you ask it to maybe, you know, live in apartment while you go to work. And then you ask it to be okay with having your friends over. And then maybe you don't really socialize it you're not on it and you're not, you know, you don't know what you don't know. And then pretty soon when that dog greets reaches

social maturity at two, you have a big problem. Like a really big problem. And so I guess then that's the moment where rehoming happens or surrender the shelter happens. And so I think that being able to select a dog.

is the right thing to do.

JoJo (13:29)
You are going to get so much hate. You might actually get more hate than I get on this episode. Which by the way, I have had designer breed cats when I was in college. I had Scottish Folds and I loved them, but they were a medical disaster.

Dr. Angie Krause (13:32)
Yeah, I know. yeah, yeah, no, I'm ready for ready for it.

Yeah.

Well, no one's going to hate on buying

purebred cats. don't know. That's not, I don't feel like, no, I don't know why, but maybe, well, maybe I'll attract it right now. but it seems like people are definitely more up in arms when, you know, people are buying doodles or whatever. Golden retrievers, Labradors, border collies, German shepherds. And so I think that.

JoJo (13:49)
Really, designer cats is not shamed?

Well here's

a happy medium, right? It still fits in the adopt don't shop. If you really want a purebred and you don't need a puppy, there are so many rescues.

Dr. Angie Krause (14:17)
Hmm. It depends on, it depends on who you are and what breed you're looking for. Like if you are I always have setters and I want another setter. I'm a really experienced guardian of a setter. I'm going to go look at a rescue, but a lot of times and not always like someone's going to come for me and that's okay.

JoJo (14:24)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Angie Krause (14:40)
A lot of times rescues are having dogs surrendered to them for behavioral issues or health issues. so, you know, adopting like a healthy, well-adjusted dog from a rescue is not as easy depending on the breed. And maybe it is. It's not that you shouldn't try. Like, I love pugs. I would never buy a pug because I don't.

I think ethically that's not right. Now, if you buy a pug, I want to love and kiss your pug. I'm not going to shame you, but for me, I don't think I could do that. But trying to find a pug that's rescued, that's going to be healthy and well adjusted is hard. Now I have done it. Like I've had a pug that I love for a long time, but I don't know if the answer is always, we'll just look at the rescue because, ⁓ I'm going to say this, some rescues

are doing anything to rehome their dogs, to get their dogs adopted, and maybe they're not being truthful. And it's not all of them. A large majority are, but I think there are some rescues out there that seem like they should be, you know, profitable. And even though they're nonprofit, like their practices seem like maybe they are for profit.

JoJo (15:51)
and they're charging like $800.

Dr. Angie Krause (15:52)
Well, I don't know that $800, it's probably right because of how much medical care these organizations, but the ones that are doing like huge volumes and that are not really lining people up or vetting people, I don't know. It's tricky.

JoJo (16:08)
Yeah.

Right. And some, if we're just gonna, if we're just gonna dog on it, here goes my turn. Some of them are too stringent with their process that you can't adopt the dog out to really, I mean, you've been through it. You're a veterinarian and you couldn't get some dogs. Like it's ridiculous. Yeah.

Dr. Angie Krause (16:15)
Okay.

Ugh. Yes.

like, yeah. And what irritates me the most

is we'll have the most qualified clients and they don't have a backyard. ⁓ it makes me so mad. You're like, okay, a backyard is not the equivalent of exercise. Dogs don't actually need a backyard. And anytime a client tells us like, ⁓ I mean, my dog runs around in the backyard for exercise. We know that dog doesn't get exercise.

JoJo (16:37)
Mm-hmm.

The Backyard.

Good job.

Mm-hmm.

Dr. Angie Krause (16:58)
Like that's not exercise. And so I get really irritated when I see people that could provide really competent, loving homes to dogs, not get approved. Cause I live in a town home.

JoJo (17:09)
It's so true.

And again, that is true with cats too. It's a dog and cat thing. Yeah. wait, you can't get a cat? Like, I think sometimes the rescuers get so attached.

Dr. Angie Krause (17:14)
Really? Who's not getting approved for cats?

Oh, really?

Why? Why are they turning people down, you think?

JoJo (17:26)
⁓ I think there are like financial limitations. That's that's a thing. Which if we're talk about financial limitations and judgments, here's one of my own judgments. Sometimes I find it irritating when somebody has spent an exorbitant amount of money getting a purebred and then they don't have money for veterinary medical services. And I judge it. I'm like, you spent all the money on the dog. Yeah, I do.

Dr. Angie Krause (17:29)
⁓ yeah.

do you really?

I totally get it when that happens. They're like, this is a $5,000 Bernadoodle and I don't have any money.

JoJo (17:53)
Yeah.

Mm.

Yeah. When I found out how much my mom spent on her cats I was like, I would have liked an inheritance. It would have been amazing. ⁓ Anyhow, this episode is feeling really scary and not where I thought it would go.

Dr. Angie Krause (18:10)
Yeah.

It's okay.

Well, we're promoting responsible breeding and we're promoting, we're also promoting rescue. Definitely. I've actually never purchased an animal from a breeder ever. And so, but I do support my clients. Yeah. Okay. So you're.

JoJo (18:31)
My folds, my folds came from a breeder. But like I told you,

they were a disaster.

Dr. Angie Krause (18:37)
Right. And just to have like a related but kind of unrelated tidbit, the AVMA did come out with that study. I don't know if it was last year or the year before that purebred dogs are not less healthy. So like mutts are not healthier than purebred dogs. So.

JoJo (18:54)
It didn't the guy who started the whole doodle breeds apologize for for starting this whole thing where they should just stop at this point like it's starting to they're starting to not be healthier.

Dr. Angie Krause (19:10)
they're for sure not healthier, I can tell you that. But are they cute? Yes. Yeah. They're, I mean, I can think of some dogs that aren't cute. I mean.

JoJo (19:11)
Yeah.

Oh, for sure. I mean, why isn't cute? Okay, I can't do it. But that's

all subjective.

Dr. Angie Krause (19:25)
Doodle, that's true, I like pugs, so. But like the cute pugs. ⁓ Doodles are, yeah, not healthier. And it's too bad, because I think standard poodles and poodles are some of the healthiest, best dogs. There are. I think they're the most underrated. Just get a poodle. Yeah. Well, but not everyone should get a poodle, right? Depends on your lifestyle.

JoJo (19:40)
That's why I said just get the oodle part. Just get the oodle part of the doodle. Yeah.

Yeah, that is true. Okay, so what are we really saying? We're saying yes.

Dr. Angie Krause (19:53)
We are pro-responsible breeding. We're pro-rehoming

without shame. And we are still pro-rescue.

JoJo (20:03)
Definitely pro rescue. I mean Bodhi and Sage both came through rescue And that's where I will always start because I want to Whippet it next

Dr. Angie Krause (20:07)
Yeah.

why I never saw you for a Whippet person.

JoJo (20:15)
I really want to dress my dog in sweaters and turtle necks. ⁓ maybe, I mean, an Italian Greyhound would work. Yeah.

Dr. Angie Krause (20:17)
I mean, that's what you're going to do.

Yeah,

they feel very similar. Okay. You're going to get that insurance. ⁓ Okay. Well, we would love to hear from you. We've said a lot of controversial things just from our own lived experience and our own professional opinions. ⁓ We'd love to hear from you.

JoJo (20:28)
So we'll see where that shows up in my life. I'm not ready yet. Yeah, maybe. So, okay. ⁓

Dr. Angie Krause (20:51)
And if you want to learn more about anything else with dogs and cats, you can use the code truth tales, either spelled T A I L S or T A L E S and go to boulderholisticvet.com and go to learn more. And you can see all of our course offerings and you can get a course for free. They're usually, how much are they? $97. So you can get that.

for free because you listen to this entire episode. The other thing we'd like you to do is subscribe. What else can they do? They can subscribe and leave a comment. What else can they do? Leave a review.

JoJo (21:27)
Yeah, both of those things

help boost our visibility. All these algorithms are crazy changing all the time.

Dr. Angie Krause (21:30)
Okay.

Yeah, totally. Okay, next time. Bye.

JoJo (21:36)
Thank you for listening. Bye bye.