Dr. Angie Krause (00:00)
Welcome back to Tails of Truth, where we tell the truth about veterinary medicine. I'm Dr. Angie. I'm a holistic veterinarian, and this is JoJo my co-host and veterinary nurse extraordinaire. And today we wanted to share with you some hate mail. It was hateful. And we're sharing this because this seems to be

JoJo (00:16)
Hatemail

Hmm.

Dr. Angie Krause (00:27)
endemic in how veterinarians are treated or maybe it's just common. I don't know if it's endemic. Maybe that's not the right word.

JoJo (00:35)
I don't

know. It's hard to say because on socials, right? Because we are in the veterinary industry. I don't know. So I get flooded with those TikTok channels and stuff. And I feel like there were, there have been more and more veterinarians crying about the, exact thing.

Dr. Angie Krause (00:55)
Yes. So this subscriber, this is a person that subscribed to our email list and we send out emails once a week with like information, things that we're up to our podcast, you know, sales, anything like that. So hop on our email list, go to our website, Boulder Holistic Vet and get on that. But so this person said, I have a question I have, I'm going to paraphrase cause it's an extremely long email. I have two.

three year old intact male dogs. The one male is after the other male's feet licking, chasing him to sniff and lick, then humping him. In turn, the male licks and bites himself. He's now starting to snap at the chasing male. I put socks on the one, but that doesn't stop the other, from chasing to sniff and lick the paws. I even gave the poor guy a bath and then she's talking about what she's doing.

The guy gets really worked up when he can't get at the paws So the first thing I'm thinking is like, there's probably something medical going on here. And then so she outlines everything she's feeding them and like what she stopped and started. I don't know what's going on with my boys. Is it male hormones? How do I relax the male hormones help? Please no expensive consultation.

just please give me answers to this issue. Thank you. So then you wrote back. I red flag right there.

JoJo (02:15)
Red flag right there. Yeah.

Dr. Angie Krause (02:18)
And you wrote back, and let me find your response.

JoJo (02:23)
It took

me a minute to respond because I do want to help and more is needed.

Dr. Angie Krause (02:25)
Yes.

More is needed. Do you want me to read your response? That sounds really challenging and I hear your need for answers. Unfortunately, behavioral issues often don't have a simple answer and require a deeper conversation, which is why we offer the consultations. Because you and I are reading that and thinking, someone's got allergies, there's like some medical thing going on underneath. Do you have the ability to see a behaviorist in your area?

JoJo (02:34)
Sure, go ahead.

Dr. Angie Krause (02:57)
Or has your veterinarian had any ideas on how to curb this behavior? It was kind of like a nudge to say, we're happy to help you, behaviors can help you, or have you seen your veterinarian? Someone needs to see these dogs.

JoJo (03:10)
Right because you and I are thinking the same thing there's something going on with the one dog's feet That is causing some kind of behavioral issue in the other dog and now there's a whole I don't know how many dogs are in the house But there's a whole spin because that first email had a lot of information in it

Dr. Angie Krause (03:15)
Yeah.

Exactly, exactly. And so we're really trying to get to the bottom of these things and you can't really do that via email. And unfortunately, we don't have the time resources to work for free because otherwise we would go out of business. So she says, hi, thank you anyway, exclamation point, a deeper conversation, intact male hormones. All my other 12 dogs were fixed too young. I'm sparing these two guys.

And I just want to say as a side note that leaving testicles don't really, that doesn't always equate to behavior problems. And so that's why I'm not sure that this really has anything to do with the fact that these guys are intact. No help to calm the hormones, herbs or food ideas to help. It's all about the money. You can't just throw out some ideas. Nope. Money first. I don't think I need a 30 minute.

or an hour consultation to get help to settle the male hormones. I don't have it with a fixed income now retired. I was hoping for some ideas, but I guess money is more important than helping someone. Ouch. I might have bought one of your products if you could have helped me. So sad. So this is just straight up. I know.

JoJo (04:38)
I just had a big eye roll. like, okay, thank

you so much. You're gonna buy a product where we have a small margin and so you're gonna make $10.

Dr. Angie Krause (04:47)
Right. And so yeah, this is really, first of all, this is just abusive. You wouldn't ask anyone else to work for free. Like I wouldn't walk into my hairstylist office and be like, Hey, can you just sit down and talk to me about my hair for 30 minutes? Can you just throw out some ideas of, know, what do I do? Like, no, you have to pay. You wouldn't call your doctor and say, can you just, you know, I'm having this symptom.

Can you just tell me what it is and just throw out some free ideas? Like, no, like we need more information.

JoJo (05:20)
Well, I do think people think email. They don't equate email to time.

Dr. Angie Krause (05:25)
Yes.

JoJo (05:26)
So I think that's slippery.

Dr. Angie Krause (05:28)
Yes, because I would need to ask a bunch of questions and I actually would want to see the dog that is having its feet licked because I'm like something's going on there. So I wrote back because I, know, as a veterinarian, like in full transparency, we don't make a lot of money. It's, you know, we just don't have a lot of margins. No one's going to become rich being an associate at a clinic.

Maybe you could make a really decent living if you owned a clinic that was really busy and really trying to meet all these, I don't know, like KPIs. But that's not the case. Like you're a veterinarian is rarely making bank. But we do it because we love it. And so when we get emails like this, it's really hurtful. It's really awful. And that's the same for veterinary nurses, veterinary reception, like

anybody in the building is underpaid for their qualifications.

JoJo (06:23)
Facts

Dr. Angie Krause (06:24)
Facts. So I wrote back, I bet you didn't mean for that to sound so rude and mean-spirited. Unfortunately, there's no diet or supplement that I'm aware of that blocks testosterone. Many behaviors are not mediated by sex hormones anyways. Asking me to consult for free and then calling veterinarians greedy is toxic and harmful behavior. Many classmates and colleagues have taken their own life as a result of the culture you are perpetuating.

If you choose to take care of animals, you are choosing to be responsible for their medical care. I hope you treat your veterinarians and their staff better in the future. In the meantime, I have unsubscribed you from my email list. And this was the first time in my career I was like, no. Usually I'll just archive or we'll send a nice message back. But I just like, I couldn't not say anything.

JoJo (07:10)
I was really proud of you. I read it again and again and again, because it was, you had CC'd me and it was in my inbox, because I thought that's how it's done. Like there is no room for this. There's no room. Yeah. I just thought that's what it, I don't think we give ourselves permission enough to set down toxic customers.

Dr. Angie Krause (07:23)
No. Yeah.

JoJo (07:33)
to shut it down. think we as an industry tend to just deal with it.

Dr. Angie Krause (07:33)
Right.

Yes, we absorb it. And that's why veterinarians, I don't know what the latest statistic is, are four to five times more likely to end their own life.

JoJo (07:41)
Mm-hmm.

It's always over this. It's not over the number of euthanasias that they're doing or the hard cases that they're seeing. It's over specifically the language of you're in it for the money, you don't love animals. Like that kind of thing just, it gets at the heart of veterinarians and vet nurses. really does.

Dr. Angie Krause (07:51)
Yes.

Yes, it's basically saying you're a bad person and you don't deserve any respect and you don't care about people or animals and that's all we care about. That's it.

JoJo (08:18)
That's it. Which

is why it hurts so much when people do it.

Dr. Angie Krause (08:21)
Yes, it's so painful.

so I, you I know we'll continue to get, we'll continue to get this type of mail, but I feel at a point in my life where I'm I'm done. And especially the more I struggle and honestly, the more I struggle financially as a veterinarian and I watch my peers that have chosen other careers. I watch how much

they can make, the vacations they can get, the benefits, all these other things. And I've gotten to the point where I would never change being a veterinarian. I love being a veterinarian. But when people come at me and say, you're in it for the money. And I just think, ⁓ if I would have gone into almost any other industry, you have no idea the financial security I could have right now that I do not. And as a single mother, that's like really just trying to make it. It makes me so angry.

JoJo (09:15)
Well, you said it the other day to me, you said that you've never had a day of PTO in your life. And that was just shocking to me. That was just shocking. Yeah, there's no benefits. there are no, I mean, now the corporate's coming in, there are benefits, but yeah, veterinarians struggle financially. Vet nurses, a lot of us are on food stamps. You know? Yeah.

Dr. Angie Krause (09:21)
No.

No, I've never had a day of PTO.

100%. Yeah,

it's a problem and I do it because I love it. so I just, yeah, no, no one gets to say like, oh yeah, you're just, you're a doctor. So you're making bank and you're like, okay, no, I'm actually struggling to figure out how I'm going to pay for my kids braces. And you know, like how I'm going to send them to summer camp and how I'm going to keep working and how, you know, it's just, it's, we are, you know, we do make more than some other professions.

We actually go into a lot more debt than a lot of other professions too. Like now that, you know, I'm divorced, I understand if I would have been, if I would have gone into family law, I could be doing really well right now. Like if I could have, if I could have like, you know, gone to medical school to do human medicine, I could be fine, right? Like.

JoJo (10:18)
Alright, kidding. $500 an hour.

Dr. Angie Krause (10:29)
All these other, you know, even a pharmaceutical sales rep, I could have just not gone to med school, used my degree in biomedical science. I could have been a dentist and ophthalmologist. Like I'm like watching all these other professions. They're doing way better than us financially.

JoJo (10:33)
yeah. Yeah.

I'm just fortunate

that I've partnered with somebody who earns well. So I mean, that's the only way you and I've talked about that. I'm like, if I were ever to get divorced, I can't support myself. That's a really sobering fact.

Dr. Angie Krause (10:54)
No.

Veterinary nurses don't make livable wages. And that's one of the things that, you know, that requires its own episode, but that's what's broken. One of the things that's broken in veterinary medicine. so when you are mean to your veterinary nurse and they have to have like three roommates to live in the front range, it's not a good look. And also you are ensuring that they're going to burn out faster.

and that the next person taking care of your pet while they're under anesthesia or doing whatever is less qualified. So I'm going to just plea, stop doing this. Do not burn out your veterinary staff and then expect your pet to get good care.

JoJo (11:37)
Right, and this woman did respond to your response.

Dr. Angie Krause (11:39)
You'll need to read her response.

JoJo (11:40)
Well, I just found it. ⁓ I don't like when somebody tries to pivot in a way that's not honest.

Dr. Angie Krause (11:49)
This is what she said. Sorry, with a broken heart emoji. I'm confused right now with crazy male hormones. I'm like, I could help you understand that. I just want a few pointers on what I can do. Everyone wants money for an answer. I don't have the kind of money for expensive consultations. You say there's no diet or supplements that could help. Then why an expensive consultation?

JoJo (12:04)
Yeah.

Dr. Angie Krause (12:13)
I'm sorry if you think I'm calling veterinarians greedy. I didn't say that. You know what? Yes, you did. I'm upset that you can't give me a simple answer without a consultation. I just like couldn't even respond to this. I'm like, my gosh, because it's because I did go to veterinary school and I've been practicing for 20 years, I can tell you it's you don't have the problem that you think you have, but we have to talk about it and I have to get more information. Okay, I guess I will try to handle the situation somehow.

JoJo (12:24)
you

Dr. Angie Krause (12:41)
myself. And it's just like

I can't.

JoJo (12:43)
I mean,

there was no acknowledgement of her rudeness or her unkindness. In fact, she just went and told you and gaslit you that she did not say what she said.

Dr. Angie Krause (12:53)
Right. Totally. Yeah. just, I didn't even respond. I just unsubscribed and I was like, we're good. We're good now.

JoJo (13:01)
And

there is this piece that I want to speak about real quick on this because she did say her age and so she's on a fixed income. And I feel like that is the age group or the demographic that we receive this from more than anything else. They feel like the Gen Zers understand. I don't feel like Gen Zers ever come in hot, maybe on occasional, but so it is this generation. And I do think on some level we have a responsibility to that.

Dr. Angie Krause (13:07)
Mm-hmm.

Mm.

JoJo (13:27)
generation on some level like Our one client that had this what she's in her 90s and needs home visits You know, I don't know. Yeah, I I just I don't know how to do that in a way but I Know I'm saying yeah

Dr. Angie Krause (13:34)
⁓ yeah.

Here's the deal.

love taking care of her and going to her home. That I feel like I am being in community. And so even though I'm not doing house calls, like I'll still go for her. But what I can't do for people is work for free. And that's why I think that's what's so hard is like, I'm not even doing house calls, but because she's in our practice and she is 90 and I mean...

have been seeing her cat, like, I couldn't drop her. And that has to be enough. That has to be enough.

JoJo (14:17)
Right. Otherwise

you break and there is no more Dr. Angie and yeah. Well, I'm glad we don't get a lot of that hate mail, but I do see the impact of people doing that to other veterinarians.

Dr. Angie Krause (14:20)
And then there is no more. Yes. Yeah. Yeah.

No, we really don't.

Yes. Well, even like JoJo and I have really hard days and there are some days where we feel discouraged. We feel overwhelmed. We feel like, especially with all the tech that we deal with, like, I mean, we're, we're producing, I mean, JoJo's producing this podcast. We're not podcast producers. We're not marketers. Like we're figuring this out. And so when we're trying to do the medicine piece and figure everything out and we have families.

and we have lives and we have health issues and we have all the things. And so when someone comes in hot like that, is sometimes it's just like the last straw and it's hard to want to get up and do it again the next day, some days.

JoJo (15:07)
Well, and I go back to because this podcast is free for you to consume. Dr. Angie is paying for this to be produced. It's not earning us anything, but this is free content and there are free blogs. And when we offer a sale that is cutting into any margin that you were gonna make that month, but you know, so I always come back to that. There is a lot of free going out there.

Dr. Angie Krause (15:21)
Yeah.

Thank

JoJo (15:33)
already. A lot of offerings.

Dr. Angie Krause (15:34)
Yes,

a lot. Yeah. We really want to help people. And sometimes people will send us an email and be like, I really can't afford this, but, know, and so JoJo will be like, okay, well, could you do a 20 minute? Like if you're nice and you know, we can help you. We will. We are definitely wanting to be of service. I am so happy to tell people that.

I don't think I can help them or I don't think this medication or, know, I'm happy to not spend someone's money just to make money. had, I had that consultation where I did, I think I did two or three consultations for them and they're like, so what about the supplements on your site? I'm like, don't do any of those. And they're like, wow. Like, so you could have made money recommending those supplements, but we really trust that, you know, you don't recommend them. And, you know, like, I feel like they could trust me more because

We're really at no time just being like, buy this thing so that we can make money. We're always thinking about how can we serve people and their pets.

JoJo (16:32)
That is absolutely true and I think we should end it with that. That we are not in the business of money. We are, we will work with you to an extent that we can still stay afloat, right? But you must, you must present yourself with kindness, period.

Dr. Angie Krause (16:36)
end it with that. Be nice to us.

Correct. Yes.

Yes.

100%. Be nice to us.

JoJo (16:50)
That is our rule.

We'll be nice to you.

Dr. Angie Krause (16:55)
And I'm also going to be nice. You can get one of our courses for free. So if you go onto boulderholisticvet.com and think it's like learn with us or something, and you go to our course tab, we just got a new website, so I still don't know the navigation quite well. If you go, you can buy any course for free. So it's not buying, but, and if you use the code truth tales spelled T A L E S or T A I L S.

You can get one of our courses for free and we have courses for itchy dogs, vomiting cats, vaccines. We have a good course offering and it's always growing. So go check it out.

JoJo (17:33)
I was going

to say that if you're listening and you made it this far, we are going to have new course offerings in 2026. And so if you have one that you would like to attend, tell us what it is.

Dr. Angie Krause (17:42)
you? Okay, talk to you next time. Bye.

JoJo (17:45)
Okay. Have a kind day. Bye-bye.