Dr. Angie Krause (00:00)
Welcome back to Tails of Truth where we tell the truth about veterinary medicine. I'm Dr. Angie and this is JoJo my co-host and veterinary nurse extraordinaire. And today we're going to be talking about indoor versus outdoor kitties.

JoJo (00:16)
Yeah, I've changed in my position on this over the years.

Dr. Angie Krause (00:20)
I don't think I knew your position before.

JoJo (00:21)
I've always been an indoor only fan and I am now much more toward the a cat's gotta live the cat life. I don't know. Yeah, well that can mean the indoor outdoor. Mostly I think I am more pro outdoor than I ever have been before.

Dr. Angie Krause (00:23)
⁓ okay.

Definitely. I am too. Which is unpopular.

JoJo (00:39)
It's just cats are like,

I don't know, they seem so happy. The cats that I've met that are indoor, outdoor seem like they have such a high quality of life.

Dr. Angie Krause (00:49)
And they're healthier until they're not.

JoJo (00:54)
Until they've been hit by car or what do you mean by that?

Dr. Angie Krause (00:57)
Mm-hmm. Yeah,

I mean, until something happens. Yeah. Which, mean, eventually you will, right? And that's...

JoJo (01:01)
Right, which it will.

Mm-hmm.

And that's the question is there is more risk with being an outdoor cat in terms of immediate death. I would say there's also risk with being an indoor cat in terms of slower death, of obesity and sadness sometimes.

Dr. Angie Krause (01:11)
Yes.

Yeah.

Yes, and I think

JoJo (01:24)
under stimulation.

Maybe that's a better word.

Dr. Angie Krause (01:26)
Definitely. I think that's true. think indoor cats, not always, but can have less mental stimulation. think they have less mental wellness. I think they're more bored. think they're more overweight. And just so we're clear, this is not an endorsement to have an indoor outdoor cat. I have two indoor cats and that have some outdoor times sometimes.

And I think that there is no time in practice, let me get a sentence out correctly, but there's no time in practice where I try to talk someone with an indoor outdoor cat to have them be indoors only.

JoJo (02:04)
or right, or vice versa, right? You're not talking in the in door cat to be an outdoor cat. And so maybe what we're saying is we accept all things.

Dr. Angie Krause (02:06)
No. No. No.

Yes, yes. I think a lot of cats that are peeing in the house would probably stop peeing in the house if they were indoor outdoor.

JoJo (02:21)
or the most miserable cats we've seen in practice are those feral community cats that have been forced to be indoor cats after living outdoors for so many years. They hate it.

Dr. Angie Krause (02:30)
They hate it.

They want to get outside all the time.

I grew up with indoor outdoor cats and sometimes we lost them. And I understand why people think that's not acceptable. But I also saw how happy my indoor outdoor cats were. They were living the life, catching mice, which I also understand why people don't want cats out catching birds and bunnies and mice. It can be really destructive to the ecosystem.

JoJo (02:40)
Mm-hmm.

Right.

Dr. Angie Krause (03:00)
So I think what we're gonna do in this entire episode is just understand both sides.

JoJo (03:06)
Right, just pong back and forth about yes and this and, because I think it's all appropriate, but you bring up a great point and it's really a hot topic right now about how having an outdoor cat is socially irresponsible. Because they harass, well they don't harass, they hunt well.

Dr. Angie Krause (03:18)
Yes.

I know.

Yeah, some of them do. Apex predators.

JoJo (03:28)
Yeah,

yeah, they're good at it. And so in our suburban neighborhoods, people are not really fans of having outdoor kitties.

Dr. Angie Krause (03:31)
Mm-hmm.

They're not, and then they get mad at each other. And then they fight. Yeah.

JoJo (03:41)
Right? Yeah.

And then you don't know the story of how that cat came to be though. Maybe somebody, I mean, we have a cat in the practice who is a fantastic hunter. This cat would never be tamed in an indoor house. He would make his people's life miserable.

Dr. Angie Krause (03:55)
No.

Yes, as his own life would be miserable. It's almost like you can't take, if you have a kitten, I think you probably have a chance of keeping them indoors, right? Like you can say, this is what I'm doing. They're never getting a taste and it will likely work. Sometimes it doesn't, but you can't take an indoor outdoor cat and say, now you're only going to be indoors and expect to have it work out most of the time.

JoJo (04:09)
Mm-hmm, totally.

Dr. Angie Krause (04:24)
I think sometimes it does. I see a lot of people are like, oh, I'm moving to a high rise and now my cat's inside. And some cats are like, okay, this is the life I have now. And they adapt, but not all cats. Sometimes they start peeing everywhere and they're, really miserable.

JoJo (04:38)
Yeah, crying out that, It's hard, but I'll, yeah, go ahead.

Dr. Angie Krause (04:41)
But I think

there are some things we can do to take care of our indoor outdoor cats. Like they have special considerations. And one of them is keep them vaccinated. Please keep them vaccinated for rabies. Keep them vaccinated for panleukopenia. So keep them up to date on their vaccines. And I think, we do a whole vaccine episode for cats? We did. Yeah.

JoJo (05:06)
We did, we did.

Yeah, it was about vaccine sarcomas and cats, but we covered the scope of the different vaccines and how best to administer them.

Dr. Angie Krause (05:15)
Yes.

Yes. So we, already did that. So you can check that out. The other thing you want to think about if your cat's hunting is that your cat has worms. So we just need to just deworm them every once in a while, um, or whatever frequency your veterinarian recommends. No one's going to appreciate that recommendation of every once in a while, but, um, yeah, just, just do some deworming to, to, to decrease their...

JoJo (05:24)
Mmm, for sure.

Right?

Yeah.

Dr. Angie Krause (05:43)
intestinal parasite burden.

JoJo (05:45)
And I would say make sure they're spayed and neutered if they're going outside. So we just had that conversation as well. This is one of those situations where this is a must. Do that, yes. And have a conversation if you are living suburban, have a conversation with your neighbors so they know who your cat is. I mean, how many cats do we see that somebody thinks they don't belong to anybody? So they're fed multiple times. So these outdoor cats.

Dr. Angie Krause (05:49)
Definitely. Yes.

Please do that. Yes.

Yes.

JoJo (06:11)
have

multiple homes and they aren't quite as lean and trim as they need to be.

Dr. Angie Krause (06:16)
I know some cats will like start whole families on the side. have like their side life. Absolutely. Absolutely.

JoJo (06:20)
Right, totally. Everybody thinks his cat belongs to them.

That's cute.

There's a cat that I follow on TikTok and I don't know its name, but he is a menace. So he wears a little GoPro and he goes around and he just harasses all the other cats. It's awful. And also so entertaining. It's like, he is a bully and it's interesting to watch the cat dynamics. And I think, that is kind of a rich life though. They have this whole social network.

Dr. Angie Krause (06:39)
Yeah, he's a bully.

It's definitely a rich life. Yeah. Yeah, they do have a social network. And another thing to talk about is like things that are coming kind of that are trending or catio. So people are giving their cat an outdoor lifestyle that is more protected. And so you can. That's what, yeah, that's what I think is ideal.

JoJo (06:55)
Yeah.

Right, I think this is perfect compromise.

Dr. Angie Krause (07:16)
is that your cat has outdoor time in the catio or some kind of enclosure in the backyard. You can do all these like cat fences now that go over your fence that make it so they can't jump out. Here in Colorado, the only thing I worry about at least in my neighborhood are hawks. Although I don't know, my cats are so big. I don't know if a hawk would try to take them. You think so? Like a 13 pound cat? Fritz weighs 13 pounds now.

JoJo (07:35)
think so. Yeah, and hawks are just...

I don't know. Don't you think?

Dr. Angie Krause (07:44)
I don't know. Someone

tell me. Someone listening to this, tell me what you think. And so now I'm like, I'm going to have to build them a catio. I want to build them a catio like off of my kitchen window. And so, yeah.

JoJo (07:55)
Oh yeah, that

would be good. Yeah, I think catios are the perfect or supervised outdoor time or even trendy right now is leash walking with cats. And yeah, I know they're so cute. I was walking in my neighborhood the other day and there was a cat in a stroller. And I was just like, this is fantastic. It's getting, I think there's a lot of compromise.

Dr. Angie Krause (08:05)
Yes. Do it, take a picture and tag us. Or a video. Yeah.

Yeah.

JoJo (08:19)
There's a lot of places that people can go to make sure that their cat has appropriate stimulation. And I think that is key. So if you're have an indoor cat, what resources are you giving your kitty so that they are mentally stimulated.

Dr. Angie Krause (08:36)
Right, like vertical spaces so they can jump up. ⁓ You want them to have toys. I love food puzzles for kitties. They need a lot of social interaction, or least some cats do. Every cat's different in the amount of social interaction they want to have with people and other animals. Sometimes cats that live alone want a friend, and so thinking about having a little playmate for your cat.

JoJo (08:46)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Angie Krause (09:02)
which doesn't work out for all cats. Some cats want to be the only kitties, which I feel like is Maine Coons. I feel like Maine Coons, they want to be alone.

JoJo (09:05)
Sure, yeah.

Maine Coon yeah.

That's okay, there's a lot of a single cat. Maine Coon is a lot of cat. They can be alone. Right, and prey, and that predator prey aspect too. You talk about this in terms of are there games you can play with your cat for prior to eating, which is what is that called? The da bird, da bird.

Dr. Angie Krause (09:15)
It's a lot of cat. They're like small dogs. They have small personality.

Yeah, yes. Yeah,

yeah. So anything that like mimics that flight pattern of a bird and then your cat can chase it, then they can catch it and then you put their food down and that really reproduces that same cycle of like, ⁓ I just caught this and now I'm eating this and I feel good.

JoJo (09:49)
⁓ What do you think about Cat TV for indoor cats?

Dr. Angie Krause (09:52)
I

think it's really cute. don't know if, I mean, I see that on, you know, TikTok or Instagram that cats watch it, but I don't know how frequently cats would watch it. But I like it. I also like playing music for your cats. Of course, music that they like.

JoJo (10:06)
Yeah.

All right,

not some kind of scream fest. So I mean, I guess where, so when I say I've changed positions, so I'll circle all the way back to where we started, is I think there's an acceptable way for cats to be outdoors. I think that if somebody's okay with the risk of their cat mate, I mean, I've lost a cat to a coyote, and I had to be okay with that risk, right? I don't know that I always will be in my lifetime.

Dr. Angie Krause (10:13)
Totally.

Mm-hmm.

Yes.

Right.

JoJo (10:36)
Yeah,

so maybe sometimes there's more attachment than others. But also with all of the resources that we have for cats now for indoor cats, I think we can make the indoor life more excitable than what the typical house cat has experienced in the past.

Dr. Angie Krause (10:54)
Yes. I think that's true. And think it really depends on the cat. Like this cat right here. This is my son. This is Fritz. He's on my lap. He's tangled up in my cord. Yes. And I know he's a little chunk. This cat doesn't have what it takes to make it on the street. And so I would never let him be indoor outdoor. He doesn't have the decision-making skills. And I think that would be really unfair.

JoJo (11:01)
I love his coloring, he's so cute. And I can see his little belly rolls.

Dr. Angie Krause (11:22)
for me, for him to let him be an indoor outdoor cat. I have had cats that have street smart that want to be out there that can do well for themselves. And so I feel like knowing your cat, it's really important.

JoJo (11:39)
Yeah,

I think that that is a great way to put it. You know your cat, you also know your own risk tolerance where your risk meter lies. But knowing your cat is true because you can see I mean, we see the difference in those cats all the time. You know which cats are going to be okay.

Dr. Angie Krause (11:43)
Yes.

yeah, yeah, you can know right away. mean, he's just a little sweetie baby that was bottle fed. And then I got him when he was like, I don't know, like 14 weeks old and he's been inside and only had outdoor time supervised, but he's scared. Like if someone new walks in the house, he's scared. He's not a candidate to walk around on his own.

JoJo (12:17)
All right, you need to be a pretty competent cat and really savvy. Mikey's, yep, yeah, you'll know.

Dr. Angie Krause (12:20)
Yes.

really savvy. Yeah, yeah. Maybe

you grew up on the streets. I don't know, maybe you were feral. Maybe you have a clipped ear or something. I don't know. It's not this cat.

JoJo (12:34)
It's like

the prison tattoo is a clipped ear Right? Yeah. if you're in also where you are living too. So if you're out in farmland, it's probably more acceptable and more appropriate to have. I think people have barn cats that are actually providing a function for the farm. Right? They have a job. But if you live in New York City, I don't know that anybody can have an outdoor cat in New York City.

Dr. Angie Krause (12:37)
Yes, I know. Yeah.

Right.

Right.

Yes.

Probably not, can't do that.

JoJo (13:02)
Hey, how do you do that?

Dr. Angie Krause (13:03)
I don't know. Someone in New York City tell us how that's working out.

JoJo (13:07)
Yeah, or Chicago

or any kind of proper city. I would assume there's not, maybe they wouldn't have rats if they had cats. I don't know. They're huge and so accepted. They're like, oh yeah, we just have rats. I'm like, Okay.

Dr. Angie Krause (13:11)
Yes.

Yeah, I know. But the rats are bigger than the cats. So I don't know. I don't know about that.

to sever us, yes. But we'd

love to hear from you. We'd love to hear from you. And I think that's our only message today is we'd love to hear from you. Give us a comment. Let us know if you have indoor outdoor cats, what your thoughts are. I think we'll probably get some pretty big opinions.

JoJo (13:42)
Yeah, that's okay. I'm here for it.

Dr. Angie Krause (13:44)
We want to hear them all.

And then tell us what you want us to talk about. If there's anything that you want us to discuss, let us know. We're always making lists and saying, we need to do an episode on this or that. But we really take it seriously when you tell us you want to hear about something. We'll do it pretty quickly. okay, we'll see you next time. Bye.

JoJo (13:48)
Yeah.

Bye.