Dr. Angie Krause (00:00)
Welcome back to Tails of Truth where we tell the truth about veterinary medicine. I'm Dr. Angie and this is my co-host JoJo, veterinary nurse extraordinaire. And today we're going to be talking about what you should be feeding your cats, how to pick it out. I don't know. Anything you want to know about feeding your cats. I think that's probably what we're going to be talking about. Hi, JoJo.

JoJo (00:20)
Right. Hi, it's

so funny. I have to just tell this story. We were laughing all the way up until record because they said, we going to talk about cats or dogs in diet? And Dr. Angie goes, it's a surprise. So I just learned that we're going to talk about cats and diet.

Dr. Angie Krause (00:27)
Yeah.

Yes. And on that note, so yesterday Jojo and I were like, okay, we're going to record tomorrow morning because we do have to plan out when we're going to record. And I was like, you know what? We should get it. You know, we should figure out what we're going to talk about. We're going to get like bullet points. We're going to get organized. And I sat down last night after the kids went to bed and I thought, ⁓ wait, the whole point of this podcast is that it is unscripted. And the minute I felt like I needed to make an outline for it, I was like,

I don't even want to do this podcast anymore. I don't want to talk about it because part of our magic with you and I is that we get to come together and just talk about stuff unscripted.

JoJo (01:14)
Right.

It freaked me out too. I went to bed and woke up from one to three thirty just being like, my gosh, what are the what are the lines that we're going to need for edits? And my gosh, what if my hair's not just right? Or what if I mean it just changed the whole concept of this? podcast. Yeah, that's OK. No, it's OK. Organization is good. just.

Dr. Angie Krause (01:31)
Yeah, sorry about that. That was a bad idea, but I was trying to be organized.

JoJo (01:38)
I love organization, but I don't do this well with organization.

Dr. Angie Krause (01:42)
No, and it's unscripted and that's the fun of it. Because we don't know what we're going to talk about. We're going to talk about cat food and we're going to talk about some opinions that I have in my experience. so that's what we got. So where should we start?

JoJo (01:56)
Well, let's start with your expertise in this area, right? Because maybe a lot of you don't know that Dr. Angie has worked in the pet food industry. I don't know when you started, but I know that you've worked for multiple brands on multiple tiers of availability from grocery store, shelf brand to, you know, a up and coming farm brand. Yeah.

Dr. Angie Krause (02:15)
Yes. Yes. Yeah.

Absolutely. I mean, I don't know when I started. It was a long time ago. Tula was a baby. I've worked in the pet food industry for a long time. So I have a lot of insight about how pet food brands market, about how they formulate. And I've, I've worked for three really great brands that I, I love. I worked for I am loving you, which is a Boulder based.

company that distributes through grocery store and I was really excited about them because it felt like the first time there was premium branding, know, there's premium food in the grocery store, which is so great. And as a mother, you know, being able to buy everything in one place became so much more important after I had children. And then I got to work.

JoJo (03:00)
have to interrupt you on that one

and tell a story about how I once went into Whole Foods and I saw your face in the grocery store aisle, you know, down here in Denver. And I was just like, I know her. Yeah, because you were on the branding. Yeah, did I ever send that to you? like this. I know her like I felt like, you know, elf in Santa. Yeah, anyhow.

Dr. Angie Krause (03:06)
no.

you...

I was? No!

my gosh, I didn't

know my face made it there. A lot of times, for a minute in Whole Foods, my face was in Whole Foods. Yeah, okay, well, that's good. Yeah, you gotta dig up that picture. I wanna see it.

JoJo (03:26)
Yeah, you were grocery store famous there for a minute. Yeah.

I think I must have texted it to you or I must have called you and like, so weird. So weird to work for somebody who is on all the marketing.

Dr. Angie Krause (03:41)
Yeah.

I worked for Open Farm and I loved Open Farm. I I still love Open Farm. I feed my cats Open Farm too. And they're a great brand. And what I loved about them is they're really focused on sustainability and ingredient, traceability and transparency. And they're into all those buzzwords, but in a meaningful way. They are cool.

JoJo (04:02)
Yeah, they're a cool company. Yeah.

Dr. Angie Krause (04:05)
And they're Canadian, which is even cooler. and then I most recently worked for Stella and Chewy's, which was kind of like the pinnacle for me of pet food because Stella and Chewy's was the first brand that started making raw food and everyone could put their meat grinders away. And, they've been around forever.

And I love their food. feed my kitties, Stella and Chewy's and I got to go visit their plant and see how everything was made. And I have even more confidence in them as a brand. And so I've definitely seen kind of the inside of the pet food industry. it's...

JoJo (04:45)
Yeah,

I think you've loved something about each one of those industries or each one of those spaces you've come away with something that you've learned. let's go backwards. Let's start with the Stella and Chewy and the accessibility of raw because raw food and cats is a different conversation than raw food and dogs in this current day and time.

Dr. Angie Krause (04:53)
Yes.

Right.

Right. Yes, it is. love, I'm a big advocate of raw feeding for cats because it meets all the requirements of high protein, high moisture, low carbohydrate. And I think cats do really well on a raw diet and selfishly I love a raw diet because it makes their poops not stink.

JoJo (05:28)
Right. That's true. Especially when the litter box is on the floor right there behind your desk. Right? ⁓

Dr. Angie Krause (05:28)
Which is huge!

Yes, I work my office

and the litter box share a space because I have a small house and so everything is close to everything. And, my cat's poop doesn't stink. can say that with confidence because I feed raw.

JoJo (05:39)
Mm-hmm.

Well, there's your clip right there. My cat poo doesn't stink. What an elitist thing to say.

Dr. Angie Krause (05:50)
⁓ he's mad. Does yours.

What an elitist thing to say. Definitely. And ⁓ I feel like most of my feline patients that are on a raw diet do really well. And they're usually a good weight except for the cat that's in my lap right now. Usually raw fed cats aren't overweight, but enter Fritz right here. So he's an exception.

JoJo (06:12)
So cute.

Dr. Angie Krause (06:17)
And he made a whole other episode. We made a whole episode about Fritz's weight in the shame episode. Yeah.

JoJo (06:21)
In the shame episode. Yeah, we probably should

do like a weight loss episode No, that's okay or not he seems comfortable not knowing anything Looks asleep But raw foods not all created equal and so I think it's even confusing sometimes because There is raw coated kibble. I don't know if they do that for cats. They do that for cats Okay

Dr. Angie Krause (06:27)
I know we should. Fritz doesn't want to hear about it, but yes. Yeah, he's yes.

JoJo (06:47)
which I wonder what that actually means. There's a lot of people come to us and they, he's so cute. He's such a cute distraction right now. ⁓ A lot of people come and they think they're doing raw correctly by just buying raw meats from Costco. And then there's commercial raw. So talk about what is an appropriate raw diet.

Dr. Angie Krause (06:55)
I know.

yeah, don't do that.

So you want to have two things in your raw diet. You want to have a proper kill step because when you go to, and that kill step meaning we're killing harmful bacteria, salmonella, E. coli, campylobacter, avian flu, which is not a bacteria, it's virus, but we're ⁓ inactivating all of these things. So our cats can't become infected and so we can't become infected because that stuff is transmitted in their

poop, live and infective. And so I, I really recommend that there is a good kill step. Now that varies from company to company. And that's why I have such an allegiance to Stella and Chewy's and open farm does a good job too. I want that raw food to be treated with HPP. And this is controversial. And there are a lot of people that say HPP, which is high pressure.

pasteurization or processing people use either term They say ⁓ it really Diminishes some of the nutrition and that's just not true HPP I'm gonna say it for those in the back HPP Does not diminish the nutrition in the raw food But it does diminish your chances

JoJo (08:13)
nutrient.

Dr. Angie Krause (08:26)
of becoming infected with E. coli or salmonella or avian influenza. So do it. It's good. Modern technology here is good. The second thing is

JoJo (08:36)
Okay, and they should be

able to call the raw food company and ask what their process is. And if they can't tell you, you should just skip that product.

Dr. Angie Krause (08:42)
Yes, they should.

run away if they're like, ⁓ well, we, know our farmers or we, we really count on the USDA to provide us with safe meats. Now there's a lot of that's a whole nother episode. but don't let's not do that. Let's not do that. ⁓ let's not depend on that. they can't, the USDA is not going to make sure your chicken doesn't have salmonella.

The USDA counts on your chicken probably having salmonella because they want you to cook it. And that's the problem when you go to the grocery store, that meat has been there for a hot minute and it has salmonella on it guaranteed. So don't put that down in your house. It's not made for that. If you really wanted to do it better, but I still wouldn't do it like this, you could go to a butcher and you could get out your meat grinder.

and make your own food that way. But that brings me to my second point is that it needs to be balanced. You can't just throw some chicken breast at your cat and expect them to be healthy. That's not a balanced meal. When cats eat, they eat generally the whole animal, which has organs and then there's cartilage and you have all these other components that you're not getting when you're just feeding the muscle meat. And we have all this data to show

what cats need to be healthy. And I like to use the data we have. do not throw that away. And so when you go to the grocery store, not only is it not safe meat, but it's not balanced.

JoJo (10:15)
Okay, so we have a pet food store in Boulder area called shine and I believe they're in Austin as well. Are they? balancing their meals in some way They are Yeah, okay

Dr. Angie Krause (10:23)
They are, they do balance, yes. I think there are

one or two minerals that they differ on and they have reasons to differ from AAFCO standard. And so I do like their foods. They have thought about it, they have crunched the numbers and so that's intentional. So their formulas, I really like their formulas.

JoJo (10:42)
Okay.

I think they ship now too, so you don't have to be in Boulder or Austin, which I realize are both very crunchy areas. is it New Mexico? Okay, it might be. Yeah. So, okay. Raw food. So still safe to give raw food in this time of avian influenza. If you are choosing a company that is using a kill step. I know it's hard because

Dr. Angie Krause (10:46)
Yes.

I think it's New Mexico. I think it's Santa Fe. Yeah, I don't think they're in Texas. Yeah.

So here.

JoJo (11:08)
There's so much we don't know yet.

Dr. Angie Krause (11:10)
Well, the thing is just because someone says they do HPP doesn't mean that they do it for long enough. And so, yeah. So what I've been doing in this avian influenza time is I've been sticking to the two manufacturers that like I know and love. I sat at the plant of Stella and Chewy's and talked to their QA person.

She's on, like they are so strict, so strict that I feel, I feel comfortable trusting my cat's lives with them. And so I, I've just, I've stuck with them through this avian influenza and the same with Open Farm too. And so I don't, I don't worry about either one of those brands when it comes to avian influenza. And I hate to say this because it's not that I think other brands aren't doing it well. I just didn't stand there and.

JoJo (11:52)
Okay.

Dr. Angie Krause (11:58)
talk to them about their protocols and watch it happen.

JoJo (12:00)
Sure, right. I mean that that's fair that you would speak from experience and that's what I hear that that's a responsible thing to do. This is what you know.

Dr. Angie Krause (12:05)
Yes.

love Stella and Chewy's. I've loved Stella and Chewy's before I worked for them. Like I've always, they've, they've always been responsible and they've always put safety first.

JoJo (12:11)
Mm-hmm.

And they have a great palatability spread, if you will, because you can get raw food in a frozen, you can get it in a freeze dried, you could get it in a coated kibble, I guess, but I, again, don't really know what that means.

Dr. Angie Krause (12:21)
Yes. Yeah.

Well, think that, I mean, basically they just spray on raw. don't actually don't know if Sela and Chewy's does make a raw coated kibble. That's not, they do for dogs. I don't know they do for cats. I don't like kibble for cats. let's dive into that.

JoJo (12:41)
They do for dogs. don't think they, yeah, they do for dogs.

so from raw. And I also

want to, before we leave raw, it's hard because there are clinics that will really, really shame people who are feeding raw. So many veterinarians are against it. So how does somebody go in and advocate if they want to feed raw?

Dr. Angie Krause (12:51)
Okay.

Totally.

I think you just have to be ready for the judgment. And you just have to let it roll off. And try to find a veterinarian that's tolerant. Ugh, I hate using that word. It feels so gross.

JoJo (13:13)
What's the worst about tolerant because it's not good enough it's not supportive

Dr. Angie Krause (13:15)
I don't.

Yeah, cause like, you know, it's like, I tolerate that you do this thing that no one wants to be tolerated. And obviously, know, raw raw feeding does have some serious downsides if not done well. And that's why veterinarians don't like it. I understand why your veterinarians judge mental. They just don't have all of the information, but it does.

JoJo (13:20)
Yeah. Yeah, nobody likes to be tolerated. Yeah.

Right.

Yeah, it does There is a lot of judgment still around that and on both sides if you're not feeding raw You're going to get judged by a certain group of people. It's a movement

Dr. Angie Krause (13:42)
Yeah, there is. I hate that.

my God, I hate that. PSA, if you are feeding your dog kibble, and this is all for the, this is for the cat people, tell everyone that you're not gonna give your dog cancer, okay? Tell everyone. Like I know that this episode is about cats, and for some reason, it's not the same in like on the cat side. People do not shame.

JoJo (14:02)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Hmm.

Dr. Angie Krause (14:18)
people for feeding their cats kibble, although we're going to talk about why I don't like kibble. But there's not the fear mongering for cats. Like it didn't make its way over, but like it did for cats really?

JoJo (14:26)
I don't know if that's true. I think it's in comment

sections. It is a mean It is a mean scape Yeah, is so I think there is a kitty movement happening so Let's move into kibble

Dr. Angie Krause (14:36)
Is it really? Okay, I've missed it.

Okay, let's move into kibble. I, okay, if you're feeding your cat kibble, I do not think you're killing them. I do not think that you're going to give them cancer. Here's what I think. I think kibble is too high in carbohydrate for cats because they're obligate carnivores and obligate carnivores, which means that they absolutely need meat. They need high protein.

JoJo (15:00)
love

Dr. Angie Krause (15:06)
low carbohydrate, high moisture diets. Like we're just mimicking a mouse. That's what your cat really would eat if left to their own devices somewhere. And exactly. And so kibble just doesn't meet that because it's too high in carbohydrate. And even if you say, well, Angie, I'm feeding a grain free kibble. It's fine. It's not fine because they just replaced that grain with

JoJo (15:15)
Predator

Dr. Angie Krause (15:33)
potato or pea, some kind of carbohydrate to make it crunchy. And so it's not optimal. We know that cats that are fed kibble have more dental disease. We know they're more overweight. We know they have more inflammation. We know they're more prone to inflammatory diseases like diabetes. Now, does that mean they're less hydrated?

JoJo (15:35)
I can.

And they're less hydrated. It's also less hydrated,

yeah.

Dr. Angie Krause (15:57)
for some, but that doesn't mean all cats that are eating kibble are unhealthy because, dun, dun, dun, dun, genetics still play a huge role. Sometimes I'll have like a 15 year old cat that's been eating low end kibble whose spelt has no dental disease, has no kidney disease and looks great. And so I think I want to, you know, say I, I don't recommend feeding kibble.

But not all cats that eat kibble are doing poorly.

JoJo (16:28)
Right, so the frisky's cat have just as much longevity and health as the Stella and chewy's raw cat.

Dr. Angie Krause (16:36)
Right, because of genetics.

Because of genetics. And so, you know, there's only so much we can overcome with diet. But I do think overall, if we look at the population overall, cats do better on raw or canned food.

JoJo (16:52)
Okay, so canned is another good option. I mean, is there more to say about kibble? Is this, this is what I was taught in school. And I don't know if it's actually accurate, but it feels a little bit accurate. They taught us that kibble is very much like having McDonald's for every meal, because it's very delicious. It's satisfying, slightly addictive and really hard to move away from.

Dr. Angie Krause (16:53)
can.

Yes, I think it is satisfying. think it's addictive and I do think it's hard to move away from. And you know what, maybe a burger from McDonald's has more nutrition than we're giving it credit for. It's not like they're all empty calories. So maybe it, maybe it is like that. And it is hard to get cats off of kibble that have been on it. And some cats are just going to prefer the higher carbohydrate diet. It is more satiating. So.

JoJo (17:37)
And the

ease and accessibility as a guardian is just hands down the easiest, especially if you have a free feeder who just feeds throughout the day. It's just, it is simpler.

Dr. Angie Krause (17:40)
Yes.

Yes.

And it's cheaper. So, you know, not everyone can afford canned or raw diets. And that doesn't mean you shouldn't have a cat, in my opinion. So I, you know, if you have a 10 year old cat that's been eating kibble and you try to feed them something else and they won't have it, well, that's what they're doing. Because cats really do make a lot of their own life choices.

JoJo (18:09)
Yep, okay. So kibble is okay, not ideal. There are more ideal diets. And.

Dr. Angie Krause (18:10)
That's what it is.

Yeah, I feel like

saying Kibble is okay is still a little generous.

JoJo (18:20)
Okay, kibble is not ideal. Yes, and we understand if you're needing to use it.

Dr. Angie Krause (18:23)
Skibble is not ideal.

Yeah, and or if that's the only thing your cat will eat.

JoJo (18:30)
Yeah,

or if your cat is choosing that, right? Yeah, save your relationship.

Dr. Angie Krause (18:32)
If your cat's too, I mean, what are you going to do?

save your relationship indefinitely.

JoJo (18:38)
Yeah, okay, so Kibble moved to canned Let's go to canned, because I feel like that's the next tier up from Kibble.

Dr. Angie Krause (18:43)
Yeah,

canned is much better than kibble and almost any type of canned and this is, you know, what I'm going to say is going to be controversial, but fancy feast is not that bad. Everyone thinks that.

JoJo (18:55)
You've pulled

the fancy feast card when for sick cats that don't eat anything, they'll go for the fancy feast. It must smell amazing. That's what I think.

Dr. Angie Krause (19:00)
all the time.

Well, the palatability of Fancy Feast, they did a great job. Like they have all the skews, have all the mouth feels, meaning like how does it feel in the cat's mouth? They have cheddar cheese in some of them. I don't know. They did a great job. And because it is low in carbohydrate, high in protein and high in moisture is better than the best kibble on the market. And feeding canned is expensive.

JoJo (19:19)
Okay, yeah.

Dr. Angie Krause (19:29)
And so if you need to go to the lower end cans, it's really not that low end. some of the, you know, like if you go to the high end Tiki cat, or Weruva I mean, those are great, but you open those up and they look like fish. They're like little fish in the can. And some cats are like, excuse me, but I'm not eating that. No, thank you. And so I, I am not afraid of fancy feast or like Costco or Sam's have their own brands of canned foods for cats. They're good.

JoJo (19:36)
Right.

They do. Yeah.

Dr. Angie Krause (19:59)
They're good. So that's fine. The downside of canned, if we're going to talk about it, is the lining. Just like when we're eating canned foods, that lining has chemicals that we are linking to hyperthyroidism. But not all cats get hyperthyroidism that eat canned diets. there is a link. But there's also a link to hyperthyroidism and fire retardants in furniture and

JoJo (20:23)
Right.

Dr. Angie Krause (20:24)
carpets and floors and it's so that's I mean we could probably do a whole episode just on that.

JoJo (20:31)
I feel like that just made me feel like we're never gonna win. So do your best. Yeah.

Dr. Angie Krause (20:35)
That's right, that's right. Just

relax, enjoy your cat. So much of this is genetic. Do the best you can with diet and love your cat. Enjoy life.

JoJo (20:46)
No, right.

Are there other options? Well, I mean, if we were to touch on two other options, the things I can think of are gently home cooked or gently cooked or home cooked, guess are kind of separate. ⁓ Could people do that? They can do that with the chicken from Costco. If they're balancing it with all the other nutrients. It's actually balance.it.

Dr. Angie Krause (21:02)
I mean they can.

Yeah, so you go to balanceit.com, generate a recipe.

I don't think so.

JoJo (21:10)
I think so. I don't know. Should I look at it? Because I feel like I'm going to do it right now.

Dr. Angie Krause (21:12)
Um, I have been Google. You should look it up right now. I we should. I

wonder if they have both like URLs like pointed to the, to the same. For its is back. I feel like I have cat hair swirling all around me and it keeps getting in my nose.

JoJo (21:29)
You're right. So

if you go to balanceit.com, goes to balance.it. So we're both right.

Dr. Angie Krause (21:33)
okay. We're both right. So do whatever you want. Google

it. So you go to balance it.com and you can, ⁓ get this mix. So if you go to products, it's going to have a cat mix. when you, it'll help you generate a recipe or you can create your own recipe on there. And it'll tell you how much of this vitamin and mineral mix, you need to balance it. So your cat's getting all the vitamins and nutrients they need. However, however,

It's a special cat who's going to eat the texture of that food. And I'm not saying it's no one's cat. And I want all the comments under this for people to tell me how they're cooking for their cats with like out of meat grinder and how they're making that mouth feel just right for their cat, because there are cats out there. I mean, we've had people that cooked for their cats. And so it's, it's not that it doesn't happen. It's just harder. So it's, you know,

JoJo (22:13)
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Angie Krause (22:27)
A lot of cats are really specific about their mouthfeels. That's why they have like shreds and pate and chunks. you know, like there's just so many ways.

JoJo (22:34)
Right and variability

is so key with cats too. I mean don't you feel you have to be on rotate?

Dr. Angie Krause (22:39)
For some cats.

Yes, I've had some cats where I couldn't feed them the same thing two meals in a row. Some cats are really high maintenance eaters. God.

JoJo (22:46)
⁓ yeah.

And some cats who probably don't want to pivot from what they're eating ever. So maybe it's not a good idea to put them in one bucket, but it seems like more people are feeding variability.

Dr. Angie Krause (22:59)
Yes. And some of these companies, so I know this is going to be a weird thing to say, but just food for dogs, used to have a cat line that they kept around because there were enough people that liked it. And basically it's a home cooked diet that comes frozen that you thaw out. And so enough cats like that. And there are more like, I think is smalls one of them.

JoJo (23:18)
Smalls is pretty cool. Yeah. Yeah. I've always wondered that because I see their recipes and I've had that question. Is there a cat that's enjoying that from a pal-ability standpoint, from a texture?

Dr. Angie Krause (23:20)
Yeah, so that's home cooked looking. OK, Fritz, be nice. ⁓

Yes.

So if your cat eats smalls, tell us, tell us what they were eating before and tell us if it was hard to get them on it. Yeah.

JoJo (23:40)
Yeah, because the company

itself, I really want to get behind. And I want to know like how are cats responding to that?

Dr. Angie Krause (23:44)
Yeah, no, it's cool.

Yeah.

JoJo (23:49)
Okay, so we've talked about all the things except the last one I think that we should end on is prescription diets, because that is so painful for people who come to our practice.

Dr. Angie Krause (23:56)
Hahaha

It's painful. Yeah. Okay. This is when I use prescription diets, inflammatory bowel disease for sure. They can be really helpful. Don't fight the prescription diet. If your cat has chronic diarrhea or vomiting, try them out. Just do the canned, if you can, of course do the kibble. If that's all your kitty will eat, or if financially that's all that works. Totally understood. Some of these prescription diets are spendy.

So I like them. Some of the times I can keep cats off of steroids just by using a novel protein diet. So I really like Royal Canin Select proteins. They have a venison, a duck. I think they have a rabbit. Yeah. And so I do use prescription diets there for kitties. And then I also use prescription diets at the later stages of kidney disease because it can help them feel better. Yeah.

JoJo (24:37)
Never have it.

But prescription

diets, I've noticed there are more and more and more of them and they're being offered almost immediately if your kitty has any kind of disease state. I'm like, what is this? It seems there are so many.

Dr. Angie Krause (25:03)
Well, okay.

Yeah. Well, I think veterinary medicine is kind of heading towards functional nutrition and all of us holistic minded people. Let's, let's be patient because if you start to look at their ingredient decks, they're cleaning them up. They, they really are. They're listening. So keep telling them what you're looking for. And, ⁓ I think they're trying to do functional nutrition, which makes sense because we know with nutrition.

JoJo (25:10)
Mm-hmm.

for listening.

Dr. Angie Krause (25:31)
we can turn genes on and off, just like with people. And so, yes, it's not just a scam that there's a diet for that. the other time, cats and prescription diets, cats that get blocked.

JoJo (25:40)
All right.

⁓ yes, for sure. Yeah.

Dr. Angie Krause (25:45)
I use those diets. I

use the canned CD or so that's Hill CD or the Royal Canin SO and I think they do help now.

JoJo (25:55)
And those have been

around for decades as a first line defense for these kitties.

Dr. Angie Krause (26:01)
They have, again, they have things in there to help reduce your cat's stress. Like that is a good functional nutrition. Now is the ingredient deck exactly how I would want it? No. But if I can keep your cat from blocking anything we can do, because everyone knows that's so scary. It's expensive. It's traumatizing. mean, that's thousands and thousands. I mean,

JoJo (26:18)
So scared.

Can you

imagine how painful too?

Dr. Angie Krause (26:24)
No, no, I can't. I can't imagine that. Yeah, so painful. Yeah. So that's another time I use prescription diets.

JoJo (26:27)
so painful. Yeah. Okay. Yeah.

And with cats, I mean, it's only going to get better and better, right? Because they are also decades behind on the research. Right? So once that research catches up, it's just going to get better and better. Yeah. Okay, so I think we covered it all. there any? I mean, I would say diet, if you one

Dr. Angie Krause (26:36)
Yes. ⁓

It's only up from here. Yeah. Yes.

JoJo (26:50)
want to get a free course on diet. Dr. Angie has made a course for cats called, I think it's called the optimal diet. So it goes much more in length or in depth than this conversation. And you can go to boulderholisticvet.com, click on learn more, and then you'll see our courses and use a code truth tales spelled either truth T-A-I-L-S or T-A-L-E-S. And that will get you one free course.

And if you want to go even deeper than that, Dr. Angie does a lot of diet consults, which we can do via a video consultation, which also go to boulderholisticvet.com and there's a little button that says book a consultation and grab time.

Dr. Angie Krause (27:25)
Grab

that course because it's $97 and you get it for free listening to this podcast. So get it, get it and watch it and share it.

JoJo (27:30)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah. And leave us your questions, because

I know that we miss stuff.

Dr. Angie Krause (27:39)
Yes, oh, I'm sure. Well, and I'm sure I've said something that's gonna make someone upset. So I'm sorry. I'm sorry if I did. It's so easy to do and we love you no matter what you're feeding your cat. And all I can give you are my recommendations. And at end of the day, you have to do what works for you and your kitty.

JoJo (27:43)
that's okay. That's so easy to do.

Okay, talk to you next time. Bye bye.

Dr. Angie Krause (28:01)
Okay, we'll see you next time. Bye.